Strike on at Grangemouth

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 28 Apr 2008, 14:03

"Pilot to tower. Isn't it about time we replaced these Diesels with a pair of those new fangled turbines?"

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 28 Apr 2008, 14:45

Beeb Have Your Say hots up...
Shall we play "Spot the sensible comment"? And then perhaps add a few??

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 28 Apr 2008, 14:46

Vortex wrote:"Pilot to tower. Isn't it about time we replaced these Diesels with a pair of those new fangled turbines?"

You would not believe the history of this plane. It was borrowed by the MOD from a charter airline in 1963, to perform some flight dynamics tests after a couple of fatal crashes by similar aircraft. As a safety precaution, a giant parachute was attached to be deployed in the event of an uncontrollable spin. During the tests, in true British engineering style, the parachute was accidentally deployed, and then the release mechanism failed, forcing a crash landing, wheels up on Salisbury plain. I have seen the photos and accident report.

After that, the charter airline declined to take the plane back. The MOD has been trying to justify owning it ever since. It costs a fortune to keep flying and it would be far cheaper to fly a turboprop.

(I was working on strictly civilian projects).

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 28 Apr 2008, 14:55

RenewableCandy wrote:Beeb Have Your Say hots up...
Shall we play "Spot the sensible comment"? And then perhaps add a few??

What's the point? No one ever reads those things. They're just a cathartic mechanism to make people feel better as they have 'complained' to someone.

I mean really, why tell the BBC your opinion on anything apart from their broadcasting or licencing fee? If you feel strongly about an issue, you should write to your MP or the company directly involved surely??? If the BBC stuff was forwarded to the relevant companies/goverment department then it would be great. As it is, it's just winging into a black hole....

I bet the beeb simply count the comment see what's popular and run that as the main news story that evening. If that.... most of these comments will, I expect dissapear into binary oblivion.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 28 Apr 2008, 14:57

RenewableCandy wrote:Beeb Have Your Say hots up...
Shall we play "Spot the sensible comment"? And then perhaps add a few??

It's not worth reading those endless screeds of comments.

By the time you take the average opinion you end up with ... ZERO.

Anyway, what's the point of posting? What will it affect?

Pre-Internet people would either have to shut up .. or grab a baseball bat or half a brick ...

The Web is essentially ANTI-democratic ... it sucks up all your ire and frustration and yet delivers zilch ...

What am I doing here anyway?

Was THIS post a good use of my time?

Nope, don't answer that - I know the answer!

Now where is that PC power switch ?

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 28 Apr 2008, 15:45

Hehehe. Great minds and all that.....

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 30 Apr 2008, 13:33

Well everything appears to be returning to normal and there is talk of a possible agreement. So it looks like my suspicions were wrong....... I can admit when I am wrong.

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » 30 Apr 2008, 14:01

Early day's yet Snow, "returning to normal" doesn't automatically mean petrol will come out of it - still needs 750 million "investment" etc. I reckon we wait and see a bit longer....

Post by **adam2** » 30 Apr 2008, 15:45

Mitch wrote:Early day's yet Snow, "returning to normal" doesn't automatically mean petrol will come out of it - still needs 750 million "investment" etc. I reckon we wait and see a bit longer....

Agreed, restoring the steam and electricity supplies for the oil and gas terminal should be relativly easy, standard power plant equipment, used world wide, and regularly shut down and re-started.

Supplies of natural gas and crude oil should therefore soon return to normal

Re-starting the oil refinery is a much more complex proccess, and may take weeks even if nothing goes wrong.

I forecast a mulitude of seized pumps, failed pump seals, cracked welds, leaks, condensate in undesirable places,rusted bolts that cant be undone, and heavy bitumen that has solidified where it cant be readily removed.
If anything dangerous goes wrong, the HSE will have a field day, and will require so many inspections, audits, safety cases and permits to work that progress will be glacial.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 30 Apr 2008, 16:08

adam2 wrote:...so many inspections, audits, safety cases and permits to work that progress will be glacial.

That's a bit Glacierist. Some glaciers are moving quite fast these days...

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 30 Apr 2008, 18:53

Of course the Pembroke refinery ended up having problems instead...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/businessN ... sinessNews

revdode · Post by **revdode** » 30 Apr 2008, 18:58

adam2 wrote:I forecast a mulitude of seized pumps, failed pump seals, cracked welds, leaks, condensate in undesirable places,rusted bolts that cant be undone, and heavy bitumen that has solidified where it cant be readily removed.

Thats a normal week at Grangemouth, do you think there will be any specific problems caused by the shutdown?

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 01 May 2008, 11:01

It seems the workers have won

ll the signs are that the Grangemouth oil refinery workers, whose two-day pensions strike closed the Forties North Sea oil and gas pipeline earlier this week, have scored a significant victory. A joint statement issued by Ineos, the refinery's owner, and the oil workers' union, Unite, was soothingly bland and face-saving after talks in London on Tuesday. But insiders say the outcome is unequivocal. Faced with such a decisive demonstration of industrial strength, Jim Ratcliffe, the secretive billionaire chairman of Ineos, has bowed to the inevitable. In exchange for a commitment to future negotiation, he has agreed to withdraw his decision to close the final-salary pension scheme for new employees and to reduce existing benefits from the beginning of August.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... unions.oil

I expect the refinery to restart fairly smoothly, but will close down completely some time in the next three years.

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 01 May 2008, 12:24

RenewableCandy wrote:
adam2 wrote:...so many inspections, audits, safety cases and permits to work that progress will be glacial.
That's a bit Glacierist. Some glaciers are moving quite fast these days...

- that expression may fall out of use or change its meaning in the coming decades. It could come to mean hidden but accelerating change rather than slow change.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 01 May 2008, 13:21

Well our tinfoil hats are gleaming brightly in the spring sunshine. No economic sabotage or permanent shut-down of the refinery.

We may still see problems at petrol stations as the ripples spread outwards, but maybe no major ones. Still, a good exercise in bringing the possibility of fuel shortages to the public attention - and prompted me to fill up my jerry can too.