The coming collapse of the middle class

[SunnyJim]

The forces at work are universal. As the asian tigers will find out.

The difference being that the asian tigers have paid of the mortgage, and we've just taken one out....

[RenewableCandy]

I've just watched it. I think the most salient bit was the observation that a middle-class who are themselves struggling to stay afloat paying their ever-increasing inelastic expenses are not in a position to help the next-lot-down up into the middle-class to join them. People are therefore far more likely to fall, or drift, down than be able to climb up.

Apparently research done over a decade ago showed that of all 'developed' countries, the USA was the one in which changing your wealth/class position was the most difficult.

[SherryMayo]

I watched the video last night - very interesting. As the lady days this is just how much the median family are struggling, imagining what it is like for those less well off. Also when a huge chunk of the population struggles to keep its head above water what does that do to the country?

[GD]

Good point Sherry. Surely we're all worse off for it.

[nepenthean]

Maybe The Decline Of The West actually started some years ago.

I'd say so--and I'm right here to observe it first hand.

[Erik]

Disturbing stuff. The documentary "Maxed Out On Credit" is well worth a watch too, and features Elizabeth Warren and others. It's on youtube in 9 x 10 minute chunks.

Check out
"Maxed Out On Credit" Part 7/9, from minute 2.38 onwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOzj3IgxD8A
The bit about her questions to the "intelligent minds" in Congress: "I asked 'What's the long term plan here? What happens when the bills come due? What do the grand thinkers have in mind here? And all they ever give you is this sort of blank half smile..."

[GD]

Thanks for that, I saw the trailer about a year ago and thought it looked good.

[Erik]

Thanks for that, I saw the trailer about a year ago and thought it looked good.

I watched the whole 1h 25m last night. Very recommendable, with many many interesting comments from Elizabeth Warren and others, including a bunch of rather unpleasant debt collectors and an outspoken pawn shop owner who could easily be Jim Kunstler's long lost brother!

The documentary goes into some detail on bankruptcy issues and the links between George Bush's sponsors (large banks and credit companies) and the legislation he has pushed through to make it easier for such companies to heavy handedly push their credit services onto the poor and gullible buggers who never needed it in the first place.

[danza]

I cannot wait to be working class. Middle class is no really for me in todays conventional sense.

[RenewableCandy]

Parents need cash and are asking for it back from their children!
says beeb news

[sentiententity]

The "Maxed Out..." documentary is also available in one lump here: http://www.mininova.org/tor/1176479

Entertaining viewing. There are some horrifyingly evil people out there.

s.

[mikepepler]

Very interesting film. I remember going on about this a couple of years ago to my family, but had not hard data to back the case up. I suspect that the "two income trap" was effectively engineered by business/government/etc.

[Vortex]

Very interesting film. I remember going on about this a couple of years ago to my family, but had not hard data to back the case up. I suspect that the "two income trap" was effectively engineered by business/government/etc.

Aaghh ....... there is NO 'they' pulling our strings!

The 2-income trap and the mortgage trap are simply 'strange attractors' which emerge from the way the market works.

Dynamic / emergent systems will always evolve behaviour which looks 'odd'.

If we get rid of mortgages or ban 2-income families then other weird but stable behaviour will emerge.

[MacG]

Very interesting film. I remember going on about this a couple of years ago to my family, but had not hard data to back the case up. I suspect that the "two income trap" was effectively engineered by business/government/etc.

Aaghh ....... there is NO 'they' pulling our strings!

The 2-income trap and the mortgage trap are simply 'strange attractors' which emerge from the way the market works.

Dynamic / emergent systems will always evolve behaviour which looks 'odd'.

If we get rid of mortgages or ban 2-income families then other weird but stable behaviour will emerge.

Agree on that one. People (me included) enjoy stuff, and when having kids it suddenly becomes important to "fit in". Very few people would enjoy being stuck with the consumption level of the 1950's when all the neighborers and class mates consume on the Y2K level. The only "trap" there is is our own lust for consumption.

[jmb]

Mod: split off Equality/Feminism thread into the "Off Topic" forum.