Strike on at Grangemouth

OrraLoon · Post by **OrraLoon** » 19 Apr 2008, 09:12

http://www.theherald.co.uk/search/displ ... _ahead.php

So, could some people make a 'persuasive argument' for keeping their pensions post-peak?

Let's check the effects of this anyway.

chris25 · Post by **chris25** » 19 Apr 2008, 18:27

This has the potential to shove fuel up to ?1.50 per litre and cause UK shortages.

Tomorrow I think I will buy a jerry can and top her up.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 19 Apr 2008, 20:22

Thanks for the warning:

Just filled up our new vehicle (Pajero 4WD

) with Diesel

The other 3 vehicles (

) in our drive can wait until tomorrow ...

Totally_Baffled · Post by **Totally_Baffled** » 19 Apr 2008, 20:25

Sod filling the car up! What a great excuse not to go to work! wahoooo!

On a more serious note - in anticipation of shortages because of a strike, why doesnt the government implement some sort of demand management in advance?

We all know that people will panic buy (making shortages worse, and shame on us in here for joining in

) , so why not limit the amount per filling station visit or something?

Or even better, make the minimum amount you can buy something like 5 gallons so that people dont continualy "top off" there tanks with tiny amounts of fuel?

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 19 Apr 2008, 21:05

From the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tay ... 356235.stm

It could be shut down for a month!

OrraLoon · Post by **OrraLoon** » 19 Apr 2008, 21:14

Sally wrote:From the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tay ... 356235.stm

It could be shut down for a month!

Apologies as "Herald" seems to have got the dates wrong.

It will be interesting to see how major operators secure supplies in all this.

And remember that there's a Network Rail strike in the offing. Nice timing!

monster · Post by **monster** » 20 Apr 2008, 12:17

Have just 'panic' bought petrol - do about 60 miles a month so should last me half a year

Has the recent increase in petrol prices reduced demand at all ?

chris25 · Post by **chris25** » 20 Apr 2008, 12:34

monster wrote:
Has the recent increase in petrol prices reduced demand at all ?

I doubt it. Petrol is one of the most inelastic goods in the world apart from food and water.

Even if the price doubled to a tener a gallon we'd still be buying it but people would just cut out pointless journeys and the motorways would be full of people driving at 50mph staring at their rev meters.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 20 Apr 2008, 14:08

Totally_Baffled wrote:We all know that people will panic buy (making shortages worse, and shame on us in here for joining in ) , so why not limit the amount per filling station visit or something?

But we already are limited to the rather small tank in the vehicle, typically about 40-50 litres plus maybe a can for the lawnmower. I can't see the problem with maintaining a nationally distributed reserve of 50 x 20 million litres at no cost to the government.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 20 Apr 2008, 14:36

BBC News - 14.30 - 20/04/08

Motorists have been urged not to panic buy fuel amid warnings that the shutdown of Scotland's only crude oil refinery could lead to shortages.

Article continues ...

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » 20 Apr 2008, 14:59

Ah, let's say - hypothetically that is - that there hasn't been really enough feedstock - crude/gas - going into Grangemouth recently. Bit of a headache as to how to explain the impending slow down in output. Then some poor Union bloke says "Maybe we have to strike if you wanna mess with our pensions" and man, problem solved!! Instantaneous massive shutdown for "at least a month" - all the unions fault, blame the workers wow what luck! Poor unioun bloke doesn't understand, "Why are they shutting the plant so early? the coud've left it much later in the week". "Why will it be shut for a whole month? We are only striking for 2 days". It's all about "safety", it's all about your strike, it's all about ANYTHING, except that we actually don't have enough oil coming in to keep going! What if - hypothetically - Grangemouth doesn't "re-open" in a month's time.

Now we have the gas chappie from Norway stating that "Britain is at the end of the pipe, and comes last when gas is handed out - no matter what price you are prepared to pay for it". Well we know that , 2005 we had 24 hours before we were going to ration industry because the Interconnector was only half full. We were offerring ?2.55 per therm when everyone else was paying 56 pence! So how do we resolve that little problem? - build a shiny new pipe across the country/sea!! Erm, well, you actually have to have something to PUT in this shiny new pipe - ah, well, we didn't think of that! Anyway, back to today - the Norwegian chappie has just, for no concievable reason, decided to tell us this today. Why?What's the point of mentioning it if there's no problem? We all know there's no problem right?
Or is there a bloody big problem that no-one's telling us?

Get me tin 'at an' pop gun luv' looks like tempers might start fraying soon.

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 20 Apr 2008, 16:36

Mitch wrote: Or is there a bloody big problem that no-one's telling us?

Get me tin 'at an' pop gun luv' looks like tempers might start fraying soon.

Well put. I have no idea whatsoever if your scenario is playing out now, but WHEN shortages start to hit, I expect that we will be given excuses of the kind you suggest. NOBODY will want to talk about the real issue - depletion.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 20 Apr 2008, 18:05

Anyway, back to today - the Norwegian chappie has just, for no concievable reason, decided to tell us this today. Why?What's the point of mentioning it if there's no problem? We all know there's no problem right?

I would guess that one or more European governments has spelled out what they would do to Norway if they don't supply gas.

The Germans in particular seem rather clear on this.

See: regjeringen.no: Norwegian-Dialogue-on-the-High-North.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,214 ... 93,00.html

(I couldn't find a link to a comment made by a German politician in the last year or so, reminding Norway about what happened in the war i.e. invasion

)

Russia and NG are covered here - somewhat chilling reading:
Article by former british ambassador Craig Murray

I wonder what the UK govt will do during a cold winter in a few years time when the incoming gas flows drop due to diversions to Europe ..

[Links edited by moderator to reduce page width - jmb]

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » 20 Apr 2008, 19:04

A clear boundary is key, in all circumstances, even between good neighbours, and especially when there are important natural resources to be managed and produced. There is an inherent potential for conflict in the combination of unresolved border issues and rich energy resources. We are therefore intent on finding solutions to the pending issues.

Hell Vortex - I am WELL un-informed, must do plenty more reading. Thanks for the links.

tomhitchman · Post by **tomhitchman** » 20 Apr 2008, 19:06

This DEFRA document Resilience in the Food Chain A Study of Business Continuity has a few useful nuggets about what happens when the petrol and diesel are in short supply.

There are a lot of anonymous quotes from those in and around the industry which don't feed me with any warm fuzzies. How supermarkets allocate their fuel is interesting....