The UK: How will it end?

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Susukino
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Re: The UK: How will it end?

Post by Susukino »

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Vortex wrote:-

How will this all end?

With the adoption of the Euro instead of the pound. We can't collapse on our own, whilst the rest of the EU stays with it's head above the water.
What rubbish. It's the Euro region that has the structural problem, not the pound. How can you make one interest rate and one monetary policy meet the needs of a dozen different countries each with their own particular problems? It's been a failure and the way France and Germany have avoided or simply ignored the rules they so vociferously tried to enforce on other members is shameful. I count myself pro-European but if you think the Euro is in better shape you need to retake Finance 101.

Suss
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: The UK: How will it end?

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Susukino wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:
Vortex wrote:-

How will this all end?

With the adoption of the Euro instead of the pound. We can't collapse on our own, whilst the rest of the EU stays with it's head above the water.
What rubbish. It's the Euro region that has the structural problem, not the pound. How can you make one interest rate and one monetary policy meet the needs of a dozen different countries each with their own particular problems? It's been a failure and the way France and Germany have avoided or simply ignored the rules they so vociferously tried to enforce on other members is shameful. I count myself pro-European but if you think the Euro is in better shape you need to retake Finance 101.

Suss
So what are you recomending as the first-choice global reserve currency? The Yen? :lol:

When the dollar tanks, what would you buy instead?
fifthcolumn
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Re: The UK: How will it end?

Post by fifthcolumn »

UndercoverElephant wrote: So what are you recomending as the first-choice global reserve currency? The Yen? :lol:

When the dollar tanks, what would you buy instead?
Barter.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Susukino
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Re: The UK: How will it end?

Post by Susukino »

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Susukino wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote: With the adoption of the Euro instead of the pound. We can't collapse on our own, whilst the rest of the EU stays with it's head above the water.
What rubbish. It's the Euro region that has the structural problem, not the pound. How can you make one interest rate and one monetary policy meet the needs of a dozen different countries each with their own particular problems? It's been a failure and the way France and Germany have avoided or simply ignored the rules they so vociferously tried to enforce on other members is shameful. I count myself pro-European but if you think the Euro is in better shape you need to retake Finance 101.

Suss
So what are you recomending as the first-choice global reserve currency? The Yen? :lol:

When the dollar tanks, what would you buy instead?
Why expose yourself to the currency risk in the first place? I don't know about you but I'm not smart enough to predict long term currency movements, so I don't try. If you're based in the UK why not invest in sterling-denominated funds? You can find funds that invest in energy, emerging markets, art, weather - all kinds of things. Select your desired area of exposure and invest. Or just keep your cash in the bank and you'll get a couple of percent interest net of inflation. Or you can keep it in used bank notes under your mattress. Making your own choices is the privilege of adulthood. :)

Suss
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

Suss,

The point I was making is that the people who are currently investing in dollars will need somewhere else to put that money. What are they going to choose instead? Looks like they've got a choice between commodities and other currencies. If they choose another currency, the least bad of the bunch is the Euro. Whatever structural problems you see in the Eurozone, the Euro is still the least bad option.

NB: I'm not an economist. If you can explain what is wrong with this assessment, I'd be interested to hear it.

Geoff
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Adam1
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Re: The UK: How will it end?

Post by Adam1 »

UndercoverElephant wrote:Everyone inside the system will claim there was no way of seeing it coming, and the sheeple won't understand that this isn't true.
Very true. It will be interesting to watch the spectacle unfold. The politicians will be testing their powers of bullshitery to the limit. Even though most people won't understand the why, that won't stop them wanting to blame "the government".
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leroy
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Post by leroy »

Toadstool wrote:...I can't help seeing hardship on the horizon....'tactical nuclear strike'....countries will fight for what power remains....Britain's economy could collapse...a lot of support for the BNP or even the NF.....don't forget who gained influence the last time the world fell into a serious depression which may shape up to be less severe than a Peak Oil depression.
Absolutely - all quite likely to my mind, and hardship a certainty. Its going to hurt a great deal - through Nazi death camps in Poland and the adversity in Zimbabwe as examples I am not suggesting a rosy future, just that we could prevail to a degree that even for us transitional generations that life will go on and may be worth living.

By the way - the BNP is the NF isn't it? Might be wrong and I am sure that the name has meaning for certain groups, but I think that the original organisation 'National Front' had an image makover some time in the '80s. They had some sort of crisis a few months ago between hardliners and moderates as far as I remember.
Vortex
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Post by Vortex »

I read somewhere that the NF's more middle class members went 'underground' and started working in the shadows.

That was YEARS ago, so dunno if that ever REALLY happened or if they are still lurking in the undergrowth.

Shades of a A Very British Coup. q.v.
Susukino
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Post by Susukino »

UndercoverElephant wrote:Suss,
The point I was making is that the people who are currently investing in dollars will need somewhere else to put that money. What are they going to choose instead? Looks like they've got a choice between commodities and other currencies. If they choose another currency, the least bad of the bunch is the Euro. Whatever structural problems you see in the Eurozone, the Euro is still the least bad option.
Why must they choose something else? Bear in mind that speculative "investment" is only part of the story. People also buy dollars for the mundane reason that they need to pay for goods and services in dollars. For all the chit-chat about a flight from the dollar, a huge chunk of goods and services (for example the entire US economy, all non-Iranian oil, most Asian manufacturing) is still denominated in dollars. Maybe that will change, but it hasn't happened yet, nor do I see why it should be a fait accompli.

Anyway, what you seem to be saying is that the Euro is a long term buy. If this is the case then I assume that although you have not articulated it you have some kind of argument to back up your view. For example, you may think that the interest rate differential is important; you might expect the shift away from the dollar mentioned above to make a strong Euro more likely, or you might think that Eurozone is going to grow in aggregate more quickly than the US and offer more attractive opportunities for investment.

I have no such view or supporting argument because (as already mentioned) I don't regard myself as being knowledgeable enough or clever enough to be able to forecast the forex markets with any consistency. If I were that smart I would be a fabulously wealthy man and long since retired. Instead I am just clever enough to know how little I know, which puts me ahead of most people.

On the other hand, personal experience has convinced me of the truth of the following three precepts. First, nothing is easier or more dangerous than making a prediction that a particular stock or currency pair will continue to trend in the same direction. Second, reversals in a trend appear wildly unlikely until after they actually happen, by which time it's too late and you've lost a painfully large fraction of your money. Third, even if you have a perfect fundamental justification for the Euro being stronger or weaker than another currency - warning: cliche ahead - the market can be "wrong" in defiance of the fundamentals for longer than most participants can remain solvent.

So if you're taking positions in the Euro/USD pair, be careful eh. :)

Suss
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

Susukino wrote: Anyway, what you seem to be saying is that the Euro is a long term buy. If this is the case then I assume that although you have not articulated it you have some kind of argument to back up your view. For example, you may think that the interest rate differential is important; you might expect the shift away from the dollar mentioned above to make a strong Euro more likely, or you might think that Eurozone is going to grow in aggregate more quickly than the US and offer more attractive opportunities for investment.
I don't think anywhere is going to grow. I think the US is at the sharp end of the credit crisis and I see the Fed effectively printing large amounts of dollars and making it clear it will print as many more as required. It looks to me like the US has decided that something resembling hyperinflation is preferable to letting the banking system implode. So I see no other possible outcome than the eventual devaluation of the dollar.

It may well be the case that if that happens, the people/organisations who currently hold large reserves of dollars will simply exit the currency markets altogether, in which case my argument doesn't work and I guess the problem will become worldwide inflation.

That is about the level my reasoning on this works. If I had any serious money to look after, I'd personally buy gold.

So if you're taking positions in the Euro/USD pair, be careful eh. :)
I don't have any money to gamble. I own a house which is worth twice my existing mortgage and I have no dependents. I figure that if the situation gets so bad that somebody in my position is in trouble, half the population of the UK will be well and truly stuffed.
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Ballard
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Post by Ballard »

That is about the level my reasoning on this works. If I had any serious money to look after, I'd personally buy gold.

[smug] I haven't got 'serious' money, but two years ago based of the doomongering of this forum, I sold my house, downsized and got rid of the mortgage.

I used the remainder of my cash to buy gold, which has increased in value by approx 57%[smug]

Turns out to have been great advice all things considered.
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WolfattheDoor
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Post by WolfattheDoor »

I used the remainder of my cash to buy gold, which has increased in value by approx 57%
How do you actually buy gold? I assume you haven't got ingots under your bed, cracking the floorboards.
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fifthcolumn
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Post by fifthcolumn »

Ballard wrote: Turns out to have been great advice all things considered.
Watch out, however, that if we get an extreme collapse, that you can actually buy anything with it.

I know that in a zombie horde situation I won't be selling any of my tinned food for no steeenkin gold sovereigns.
MacG
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Post by MacG »

fifthcolumn wrote:
Ballard wrote: Turns out to have been great advice all things considered.
Watch out, however, that if we get an extreme collapse, that you can actually buy anything with it.

I know that in a zombie horde situation I won't be selling any of my tinned food for no steeenkin gold sovereigns.
Exactly! "Gold is for optimists - I diversify into canned goods"
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Ballard
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Post by Ballard »

Watch out, however, that if we get an extreme collapse, that you can actually buy anything with it.

I know that in a zombie horde situation I won't be selling any of my tinned food for no steeenkin gold sovereigns.
Got a basement full, I've run out of room to store it...

On the other hand, if the Zombie hordes attack a pocket full of gold coins is going to be a lot easier to cut and run with, rather than a wheelbarrow of tinned pilchards.
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