APPGOPO and Soil Association

Forum for general discussion of Peak Oil / Oil depletion; also covering related subjects

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Smithy
Posts: 160
Joined: 03 Feb 2007, 21:29

Post by Smithy »

snow hope wrote:Am I the only one that finds this disgusting? I am sorry but I just can't buy into human manure...... I must be too much of a Nancy! :shock:
Just think of the traditional cottage garden...
http://journeytoforever.org/compost_humanure.html
In 1859 the Rev Henry Moule of Dorset in England decided the family cess-pit was a foul abomination, had it filled in, and told his family to use buckets, the contents to be emptied and buried in trenches in the garden -- where, within weeks, "not a trace of it could be discovered". What could soon be discovered was a "luxuriant growth of vegetables in my garden" -- and that dry surface earth, not water, was the place for "offensive matters". He wrote a pamphlet on it: "National health and wealth, instead of the disease, nuisance, expense, and waste, caused by cess-pools and water-drainage", and became a tireless campaigner for his by-now patented Moule Earth Closet (No 1316, 1860) -- wondrous Victorian-style machines which "flushed" dry earth via a lever, or automatically when you stood up, with luxury models in mahogany and oak. The soil could be dried and re-used up to seven times without offence or nuisance. It was a powerful fertilizer: a neighbouring farmer's swedes grew a third bigger when he used it instead of superphosphates. "Manure for the millions," Moule wrote in a letter to the cottage gardeners of England. Schools used them, and barracks, The Lancet wrote of them glowingly, even Queen Victoria had an earth closet (though of course she never had to use it...). But in the end the sheer mindless convenience of the water closet (flush toilet) won the battle -- though perhaps not yet the war.
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

I just can't buy into human manure......
I think the idea was to use your own household's rather than buy it.
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mobbsey
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Post by mobbsey »

snow hope wrote:Am I the only one that finds this disgusting?
Oooookay...

A few years ago an Aussie film company produced a documentary about computer hackers in which I featured (...don't ask!).

I took them to a friend's place in Wales as part of the action we were planning. He lives a pretty basic existense on top of a mountain. The film crew were tucking into their luscious, home grown/cooked food when he ask asked them to make "a deposit" in the loo to fertilise the following years crops (it's pretty important -- if people invite themselves for dinner and don't put something back you lose nutrients!).

There was a pause, lasting several seconds while the implications of the request sunk in, then they all started eating again. :wink:

If you have a problem with shit then I suggest that you take a reality check. Let's look at this in terms of the actual reality under the Conservation Law:

The chemical elements in your body are the recycled 'shit' of a supernova that went of somewhere around here ten billion years ago. The food we eat is fertilised with the recycled 'shit' (the oil and gas) of the life that died a hundred or so millions of years ago. Statistically, even with all the artifical fertiliser, you're going to be eating chemical elements that were shat or decomposed from the corpse of something that died in the last few thousands years (in the UK human bodies are less likely to be 'recycled', except by deep rooting plants like fruit/nut trees, as they tend to be buried in the subsoil -- but if you get food imported from Africa or India, where cremation is common, it's more likely).

The universe recycles far better than your local council! -- in a finite environment it's inevitable.

Provided that the food is cooked properly, there's no problem eating root and other veg. with their skins on (the potential contaminants are in any case almost identical to the common microbial contaminants you find in industrialised meat every day!). Even raw root veg are OK when peeled and washed because, like most organisms, the inside of the plant is kept fairly sterile (or it would die of an infection -- e.g. potato blight). The only grey area are leaf veg., like salad, but you tend not to put your composted crap on those -- you mulch a root crop the prevous year and then grow the leaf veg. in the same ground the following year.

Remember, we're not talking about putting raw shit on the land -- it should be composted for two years to kill the problematic pathogens. The only really problematic organisms you can ingest are specific to the human species, such as flukes and worms. As such, they can't survive a protrated composting process because it's a completely different environment to the human gastrointestinal tract. Those organisms that might get 'recycled' naturally live in your gut anyway, and some are important on the decomposition of the food you eat -- it's only when we artifically stimulate their natural selection by making them resistant to antibiotics/the human immune system that they become a problem (MRSA/C. difficile, etc.).
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