An efficient 4x4?

[mikepepler]

Although our Polo hopefully has many more miles left in it, I've been pondering whether it might be useful to have a 4x4 to enable more woodland related driving. As the winter has progressed we've had to stop driving up the shared track to our wood so we don't wreck it, and are walking up with the chainsaw, etc. It started me thinking about a 4x4 that could get us into and around the wood, and also pull a trailer up and down the track for delivering logs. It would also enable us to work in other woods with poorer access in future.

However, I can't bring myself to own a big gas guzzler.

The only small 4x4 I've seen is the Suzuki Jimny
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Det ... eriv=30352
but it doesn't use diesel, and the unbraked towing weight is lower than our Polo (though the braked weight is higher).

Has anyone had any experience of small 4x4 vehicles? I also wondered about a "normal" car that was 4x4 and had high ground clearance, but I've no idea how good these really are.

There's always the usual considerations about fuel prices, availability, collapse of society, blah blah blah, but if a 4x4 would make our woodland and related activities easier for the next 2 or 3 years then the payback might be worth it, even if after that it was costing too much to run.

The other consideration is we only want to own one vehicle, and for us both to visit my family (near Manchester) by train would cost over ?160, so there's still quite an incentive to drive that journey, providing the vehicle is not too inefficient.

Any thoughts? I'm torn between making life easy while I can and making it difficult so I'm prepared....

p.s. I'd love to use horses for timber extraction, but that doesn't help with the day-to-day getting there and back with a load of heavy tools that has to come first, or with delivery of produce to customers.

[Adam1]

Difficult dilemma: this is classic example of where a car club would be great. You could use the 4 x 4 when it is needed and a high-efficiency diesel for the trips to Manchester.

No suggestions except that, if there is an efficient diesel 4 x 4 that has the option to switch off the four-wheel drive, it would be worth going for.

Travelling in Iceland last summer, a big energy and money splurge for us - this year's holiday will be much more modest (a week or two staying with my mother-in-law), there were lots of Jimnys on the roads but they looked very flimsy. We had a city 4 x 4 which broke down on one extremely remote track (thank you Ford). The coolant pipe became dislodged and all the anti-freeze drained out stranding us. There was no jubilee clip but instead a clip that couldn't be re-attached without special equipment.

I came away with the impression that "real 4 x 4s" are a different beast altogether to their showy city cousins and that they are always going to be fairly thirsty - big, high rolling resistance tyres, low gearing, non aerodynamic shape etc.

[clv101]

How about the Subaru Forester (97-03)

Launched in the UK a month before the Land Rover Freelander, the Forester was showing the way forward when it came to combining on and off road ability and agility. Although the Forester is more conventionally styled it has as much ground clearance as a Freelander and a proper low-range gearbox on non-turbo models. Certainly worth considering for part time off roaders.

Technical Specs.

Looks perfect - except for the 31mpg petrol engine. No diesel version.

The Mitsubishi Shogun Pinin (00-05)?

When it comes to the rough stuff, the multipurpose Shogun Pinin is a real RAV4 rival with proper 4x4 hardware including a low-ratio gearbox and a diff lock. It?s not bad on-road either; small enough to weave through urban congestion, with a reasonably composed ride and good all-round visibility, but is left wanting at higher speeds. The Pinin tag refers to Pininfarina; the Italian design house that penned the shape, giving it a robust interior and chunky looks, despite the compact shape.

Again, no efficient diesel engine though...

Maybe a Toyota Hilux (76-05)

The Toyota Hilux is one of the world?s most popular 4x4 trucks and was in Britain the archetypical 4x4 until the emergence of the Mitsubishi L200, which is now the market leader. Single and double-cabs were available until a facelift in 2001, which saw the addition of an extra-cab version with occasional seats in the back. All models are extremely rugged and double-cab top-of-the-range versions are hardly ever likely to have been off-road.

http://www.moderncars.co.uk/toyotahilux.html

[Bandidoz]

Possibly an old-style Land-Rover (aluminium body?), or a Toyota Hilux, as featured in Top Gear where they tested it to near-destruction....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrk6vsb77xk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uc4Ksz3nHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfZDtC9kjVk

[mikepepler]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'd wondered about the Toyota Hilux, with its good load space, but it doesn't fulfill the "car" role, only having 2 seats, and isn't very efficient. The 4-seat version would have limited load space, so would need a trailer.

The Mitsubishi looks good, though is quite thirsty. Same goes for the Subaru.

I did consider land rover defenders as well, but they aren't remotely useful for a long drive up to Manchester...

It seems I have four options:
- get a "real" 4x4, and just accept we'll have to pay the train fare for long journeys.
- get a "real" 4x4 and also have a small car for other journeys.
- put up with the low efficiency and get something like the Subaru.
- just stay with what we have and see if I can borrow/hire a 4x4 and biog trailer when I needed (don't know how easy this would be).

[phobos]

Mike, we have a Honda CR-V now, its a nice balance, its not a gas guzzler, it drives like a car, and is in 2wd most of the time, but has the clearance and 4wd if you need it, plus a big boot and towing abilities.

To drive it is like a car, its quiet, comfortable, responsive and will do 30 mpg no problem more on a run. Ours is the petrol version which can be converted to LPG which makes it closer to 60 mpg per ? if you buy at the right price. As with Toyota etc you have the reliability as well.

We have previously owned a Land Rover, dont get one unless you want regular trips to the garage..

[clv101]

- put up with the low efficiency and get something like the Subaru.

If your annual mileage is quite low, say 5000 miles then the difference between the 30mpg Subaru and a 50mpg diesel is 67 gallons or 303 litres per year.

[Bedrock Barney]

Same thought process here. I want a good towing vehicle, ie couple of tonnes or so. Only a big 4x4 will cope with this.

I too am struggling with the concept of running a 'gas guzzler' although with live in rural Lincolnshire and there are plenty of them on the roads round here.

Leaning towards a classic Range Rover diesel, M or N reg (ie 1994 or 1995). In manual form this should achieve 30mpg. Also seriously considering a twin tank veg oil conversion for this model. Should be able to pick up a well kept FSH model for ?5K.

Alternatives are a Discovery 3 or new Defender. Fuel economy not quite so good at 25mpg. Also the Discovery is a bit of a Chelsea tractor. The Defender has a neutral image as it is workhorse vehicle. However neither are really suitable for veg oil conversion - particularly as both vehicles would be ?20K + to buy.

I'n no expert but I'm not convinced that the 'baby' 4x4's are a good compromise, especially on the load hugging side of things. They would have better ground clearance however compared to a 4wd audi A6.

I had the opportunity to help myself to a huge pile of freshly cut wood recently but almost got bogged down and lots of scraping noises underneath when pulling away in our Volvo V70. Equation could have been ?75 of free wood (less petrol to get there) minus ?750 bill to rebuild the gearbox and exhaust system!! In the end I only did one trip. With a 4x4 and a trailer I could have acquired 2 or 3 years of wood.

I have changed my view slightly on 4x4's since moving to the country. They have a definite use for specific jobs and make a lot of sense. Saying that I can see how trundling around London or Manchester in a Q7 or Cayenne would appear to be very decadent. Interestingly our family car (Volvo V70 bi fuel) only achieves 25mpg although of course this is running on lpg. Fuel economy therefore no better than a Land Rover Defender.

[stumuz]

Right where do I start?

Most 4x4?s are girly impostors of a real off road vehicle called THE LANDROVER DEFENDER 300 TDI?. I THANK YOU!

I cannot praise my landy enough; he?s called Landrew by the way.

Environment. Buy this vehicle once and you will never have to buy another one. Consider the environmental costs of building those awful pathetic cars with 4x4 dresses on, that only last a couple of years. The repairs are so easy and the parts are all salvaged, nothing on a landy goes to waste. In fact there is a company in Coventry? That just rebuilds blown up Landy?s from Iraq and sends them back new! The ultimate green vehicle. It also steam cleans your old parts and sends them back to you new. I could go on.

Work. My landy goes into the forest (wherever there is a tree blown down) and will carry home 3 TONS of wood without a murmur, the winch on the front can pull trunks to their cutting position. It is such a reliable workhorse. It launches my fishing boat in places where no other ordinary common useless poor excuse of a vehicle would dare to go. Other vehicles such as the Ford Maverick quiver when Landrew is in action, it is such a beast.

PO Preparedness. Landrew keeps going and working when all other specimens have died. We know there will be die off post PO , But Landrew will still be doing his stuff because he can survive on a range of fuels. I have run mine on veg oil , used veg oil, central heating oil and the odd bit of diesel. The spare parts are a fraction of the cost e.g. oil filter ?1.80, metal air filter (can be recycled) ? 7.90.

I was in Llandudno a few months back and there was a fully Pink Landrover 300 tdi, I mean pink seats, wheels, inside metal, bumpers , everything was pink the lady owner had named hers Landrea!!
We left Landrew and Landrea to it and went our separate ways, .but disappointingly, nothing has evolved.

I would recommend a Landrover, by the way!

[emordnilap]

stumuz: would you say you are a fan of Landrovers, then?

BTW, two Landrovers, Landrew and Landrea, in Llandudno, errrr...is this a lampoon?

[stumuz]

No lampoon, honestly!!

It was so strange seeing such a masculine workhorse in pink, i just had to speak to the owner.

[RenewableCandy]

There was a Pink Tank in (I think) Wenceslas Square, Prague, once. It was part of a protest.

[emordnilap]

BTW, my Polo is called, unimaginatively enough, Apollo II.

[Bedrock Barney]

I would recommend a Landrover, by the way!

I know deep down that we should go for a Defender if we plunge into the 4x4 world. Do you think the latest model is ok? We had a test drive and we were surpised as it was (relatively) refined. It was the county model though so soem half decent internal sound proofing.

I haven't driven an older model as yet so maybe we should do this as well.

We owned a 3.9 litre 1991 Range Rover classic for short period of time a couple of years ago. It was..ahem...a little rough round the edges, seemed to get confused when presented with a corner and drank petrol at a stupendous rate (15mpg if we were lucky). Good fun though but I would want a tighter piece of kit if we went down the classic route again - a late model 300tdi soft dash version.

Looked at the new Discovery 3 which is a very nice vehicle. It also seems to have lots of nice toys that will probably go wrong. This doesn't feel like a long term wise choice.

Haven't considered anything outside the Land Rover range at this stage.

[stumuz]

The latest landy defender has a ford transit engine and 6 forward gears. A bit complicated I think, also it is a bit technical for the veg/heating oil mix.
However, they do have a draw back. There is a world shortage of 200/300tdi defenders and they are always getting pinched and shipped to Africa/Asia within days.
I have fortified mine!
6k will get you an N reg one