Recession

[stumuz]

We spend a lot of time talking about peak oil preparations, but how about recession preparations?

They are the same thing. Once you are PO prepared the recession will pass you by.

[stumuz]

I agree that there may be a time to review the situation, but for me that time has not yet come.

Good advice, I would add another snipet.

Only insure things that you could not afford to lose. Breadwinner, house etc. All other insurances are are a rip off and if you read most policies are not designed to pay out anyway, take a look at a typical central heating plan. They do not cover the most frequent jobs!

Plus reduce youe risk rating whenever you can. I live in a large 5 bed farmhouse and my building insurance? ?81 a year.

[MisterE]

I've been preparing since the last one I suffered.

To date I only need ?90 a week to live comfy, thats my bills and food sorted. I have reached that magic achievement in life that is only exceed by having children for us commoners which is 'can survive easy on the dole'. I have no debts at all and my house and flat are paid off. It wasnt an easy one to prepare for, I worked anywhere and everywhere from 20 to 33. I missed out seeing my sons grow up, was there now and then but that is the price I had to pay. What savings I have are being spent on the home, making nice rooms for my family, log stove, solar, insulation, storage sheds (but nice ones that dont make the garden look like a shanty ie block render painted) damp proofing and new roof.

I no longer call it recession but rest - ahhhhhhh rest. I love to play chess and played for the county I love to play guitar, read, play on the console, go for walks, go to the beach. I do none of these becasue I work all the time, so recession will be a godsend for me as I have no time for this things, but I'd like one more year of earning if poss. I watched year by year as people went into debt for cars, homes and plastic crap from china. I was laughed at by everyone when I'd say ffs save up for it, not only is there no risk with that but you enjoy the item more if you feel you've worked for it and more importantly it gives you a long time to think 'do I really want or need that' ie ' is it worth spending MY hard earned money on'? The spin off of this was out of everyone I know I was the only one that could afford for their wife to stay home and do the most important job there is ie raise a family. I dont believe mothers should be allowed to work, I feel very strongly about it - but my compromise was I offered her the choice me quit or her - so she quit her high paying job and now the hard times are over and the kids are older she's loving it. Also my kids are waaaaaay ahead in school and with their social skills - I dont see many parents out there today.

In essence I dont think people can prepare for recession. I was the ultimate squirrel n nuts. Nearly everyone I know are in the opposite ends of that spectrum or as a few of my like minded friends call it 'FCUK-ed'. It really is a question of how much debt you carry that is linked to your home. Get rid of everything that is tied to the home, somewhere to live is all you need to survive a recession - now a depression thats a different skill base all together.

[Adam1]

We spend a lot of time talking about peak oil preparations, but how about recession preparations?

They are the same thing. Once you are PO prepared the recession will pass you by.

I agree with stumuz. Although, the fact that the earliest manifestation of peak oil will be/is(?) the recession, underlines that dealing with debt and reducing outgoings are essential first steps. Reskilling, moving and generally taking risks by changing your life all become easier/possible once your finances are in better shape.

[MisterE]

Agreed intially they are one and the same thing. How ever I do think in this recession it will be harder to stay warm. Electric and gas shortages could happen. Energy wise I think, I'm no sure, but I think that this recession will be harder than the last ones ie from 70's onward.

[bobthebaker]

I've been preparing since the last one I suffered.

To date I only need ?90 a week to live comfy, thats my bills and food sorted. I have reached that magic achievement in life that is only exceed by having children for us commoners which is 'can survive easy on the dole'. I have no debts at all and my house and flat are paid off. It wasnt an easy one to prepare for, I worked anywhere and everywhere from 20 to 33. I missed out seeing my sons grow up, was there now and then but that is the price I had to pay. What savings I have are being spent on the home, making nice rooms for my family, log stove, solar, insulation, storage sheds (but nice ones that dont make the garden look like a shanty ie block render painted) damp proofing and new roof.

I no longer call it recession but rest - ahhhhhhh rest. I love to play chess and played for the county I love to play guitar, read, play on the console, go for walks, go to the beach. I do none of these becasue I work all the time, so recession will be a godsend for me as I have no time for this things, but I'd like one more year of earning if poss. I watched year by year as people went into debt for cars, homes and plastic crap from china. I was laughed at by everyone when I'd say ffs save up for it, not only is there no risk with that but you enjoy the item more if you feel you've worked for it and more importantly it gives you a long time to think 'do I really want or need that' ie ' is it worth spending MY hard earned money on'? The spin off of this was out of everyone I know I was the only one that could afford for their wife to stay home and do the most important job there is ie raise a family. I dont believe mothers should be allowed to work, I feel very strongly about it - but my compromise was I offered her the choice me quit or her - so she quit her high paying job and now the hard times are over and the kids are older she's loving it. Also my kids are waaaaaay ahead in school and with their social skills - I dont see many parents out there today.

In essence I dont think people can prepare for recession. I was the ultimate squirrel n nuts. Nearly everyone I know are in the opposite ends of that spectrum or as a few of my like minded friends call it 'FCUK-ed'. It really is a question of how much debt you carry that is linked to your home. Get rid of everything that is tied to the home, somewhere to live is all you need to survive a recession - now a depression thats a different skill base all together.

Totally agree.......

In the last recession I lost my job and house, in this one I'm half wanting to lose my job for exactly the same reasons (ie rest and also have no debts) although the irony is that this time round my job could be reasonably safe!! (not that I begrudge that when millions of other could lose theirs).

Please note in a depression I will come to power and you will be my Minister for Justice so there will be a commensurate salary (for keeping your mouth shut)

[bobthebaker]

It seems to me as if we are on the brink of a major, global, recession. Worst and first hit will be America but Europe and China/the East will soon follow. I?m convinced this will pull down demand in the short to medium term at least such that the direct effects of depletion will be largely unseen. So the question is, what to do? How does up plan for recession? Will we experience inflation or deflation? I think it?s a given that house prices are going to collapse, but what will be the effect of that?

We spend a lot of time talking about peak oil preparations, but how about recession preparations?

A good question vexing many posters on the housepricecrash site!

Inflation/deflation/stagflation who knows?

Do we buy gold? Do we sell to rent?

THe best thing to do is get rid off all your debts ASAP and live modestly. Let's face it most of what modern life offers are fripparies that we can easily do without.

And if the worse comes to worse we'll gatecrash Mike P's Wood

I'm of the view that we are entering a perma recession because as soon as the economy recovers in a few years time we'll bang our heads on the ceiling of peak oil. The age of excess is over and we now enter the age of modesty/frugality.

[MisterE]

I've been preparing since the last one I suffered.

To date I only need ?90 a week to live comfy, thats my bills and food sorted. I have reached that magic achievement in life that is only exceed by having children for us commoners which is 'can survive easy on the dole'. I have no debts at all and my house and flat are paid off. It wasnt an easy one to prepare for, I worked anywhere and everywhere from 20 to 33. I missed out seeing my sons grow up, was there now and then but that is the price I had to pay. What savings I have are being spent on the home, making nice rooms for my family, log stove, solar, insulation, storage sheds (but nice ones that dont make the garden look like a shanty ie block render painted) damp proofing and new roof.

I no longer call it recession but rest - ahhhhhhh rest. I love to play chess and played for the county I love to play guitar, read, play on the console, go for walks, go to the beach. I do none of these becasue I work all the time, so recession will be a godsend for me as I have no time for this things, but I'd like one more year of earning if poss. I watched year by year as people went into debt for cars, homes and plastic crap from china. I was laughed at by everyone when I'd say ffs save up for it, not only is there no risk with that but you enjoy the item more if you feel you've worked for it and more importantly it gives you a long time to think 'do I really want or need that' ie ' is it worth spending MY hard earned money on'? The spin off of this was out of everyone I know I was the only one that could afford for their wife to stay home and do the most important job there is ie raise a family. I dont believe mothers should be allowed to work, I feel very strongly about it - but my compromise was I offered her the choice me quit or her - so she quit her high paying job and now the hard times are over and the kids are older she's loving it. Also my kids are waaaaaay ahead in school and with their social skills - I dont see many parents out there today.

In essence I dont think people can prepare for recession. I was the ultimate squirrel n nuts. Nearly everyone I know are in the opposite ends of that spectrum or as a few of my like minded friends call it 'FCUK-ed'. It really is a question of how much debt you carry that is linked to your home. Get rid of everything that is tied to the home, somewhere to live is all you need to survive a recession - now a depression thats a different skill base all together.

Totally agree.......

In the last recession I lost my job and house, in this one I'm half wanting to lose my job for exactly the same reasons (ie rest and also have no debts) although the irony is that this time round my job could be reasonably safe!! (not that I begrudge that when millions of other could lose theirs).

Please note in a depression I will come to power and you will be my Minister for Justice so there will be a commensurate salary (for keeping your mouth shut)

Rofl my lips are sealed boss

[Andy Hunt]

Hey - don't forget you need a Minister for Propaganda - er, I mean information.

All hail our glorious leader! We have met our carbon targets this year. Obesity is no longer a problem. And best of all - unemployment is down to zero!

(what do you mean, so is the minimum wage? Take that man and put him to work immediately!)

[RenewableCandy]

The spin off of this was out of everyone I know I was the only one that could afford for their wife to stay home and do the most important job there is ie raise a family. I dont believe mothers should be allowed to work, I feel very strongly about it

At the risk of fisticuffs in the streets of Leeds I'm going to take issue with you there MrE and point out that this is not necessarily for the best. Childhood is a l-o-n-g business, let's say at least 12 years...

Saying 'All Women Should Do x' (let's face it VERY few of don't have a child at some point or other, so All Mothers is pretty well all of us) is kind of absolutizt, almost like saying 'all men should spend 12 years in the Forces' or even, the priesthood! Full-time motherhood with no other socially-comparable activity interspersed, is simply not for most of us. Leaving aside the extra money argument, any worthwhile work (at least in my case):

Is a social activity, without which I would be isolated. It is my 'public face' (sorry not easy to explain, sounds a bit French perhaps but work is a big part of what makes a person a Citizen)
Gives me knowledge I would not otherwise have: not just about my job but about al sorts of semi- or un- related things
Is interesting to my other 1/2 and children: news about what we get up to at work is an extra source of knowledge for them
Is inspiring for my children.

More practically, although you are doubtless faithful and indestructible, other 1/2s do occasionally die or leave. A person unused to at least some degree of standing on their own two feet would find this much harder than someone who is working (for financial and social reasons).

Finally looked at from the Children's p.o.v., generally it has been found that children of mothers who work are more sociable and do better at school than children whose mothers stay at home (matched for house income)

Well that's really just a start, I could go on. I have worked full and part-time, and stayed st home also, during our 2s' childhood, so I know what each is like. All have their good points, but none is an absolute best for everybody.

[MisterE]

Yep renewable candy had the arguments all my life with this one - I just agree to disagree now. It dont help having 3yrs of battering on in Psychology too lol and my fav was child pysche. The best I can ever say to those who my stupid views wind up is that there are exceptions but on the whole children fair much better with a parent at home and I think whilst all people can be good and bad at this job, women are better than men at it, not always. The exceptions are success stories, multiple parents, kubitz, orphans, fosters, death of parent, sickness of parent. I admit I can be wrong and the world is a varying place with no correct way, but on the whole I'm the type that would shoot those that go out to work through choice than raise their children, I am a strong believer of the housewife and man out to work I think the country is worst off for both working. I understand that either party can play this role. But thats me, it pissess people off but its only my view and my observation on life that most parents that work their kids suffer - not all of course. I pine for the day that raising children will be seen as a respectful and proud profession - but I guess I'm a dinosaur living in the past rofl - soz jsut stuck in my ways, slap me with a fish

Hmmm I should point out too that I'm talking about choice not the now thatcherite necessity spawned from greed. In many respects I am very specialised in this area and the research actually shows the opposite. The good research shows that parenting is needed and can come in many forms, this is about as best you can get in the absence of a primary caregiver. Other than that all the "oh its ok to work research" is complete rubbish. Not one good child psyche would state otherwise however there can be coping models and exceptions, as you proved yourself. But on the whole I dont think its a good thing, these days who knows with people being dragged up the may be better off relying on each other than idiots left in charge of them. But please remember I'm talking about the whole not anyone whose ever gone to work lol. Like I said its an argument that can go on and on and on. Its only my view

[tattercoats]

Candy, you beat me to it. Nice post.

MisterE, I agree with much of what you say, and I expect we have a lot of common ground in terms of, say, reckoning that children deserve better than many of them get, and that many of society's woes can be laid at the door of families which have failed their children.

However, I must call you on your statement about mothers being 'allowed to work'. Though I note you did compromise, and I respect that.

I'd put it this way: children deserve to be raised by their parents, or else by other close, loving, and consistent elders (grandparents or other rels or close friends can provide that in many cases) but where this is not possible, (single parent families happen; single incomes are often simply not enough to keep a family; many folk have no backup from relatives etc) then high-quality and affordable childcare should be available.

It isn't, for most people. Besides, our culture does not value carers of any kind (men can raise children perfectly well; parents can 'go shares'; caring for a disabled or elderly family member at home is also part of this debate).

I've gone a bit rambly as I'm trying to cram in all the provisos and reasons I can, MisterE; and I am in fact a Stay-at-home mum myself. I worked through my son's early years to make ends meet (no family to back me) but have the luxury of not having to work through my daughter's. They are both well-adjusted youngsters, because both have had consistent and firm care. However, I'm happier this way, and am able to contribute to the community besides, plus manage my family and house in a greener/PO friendly way.

And, Candy - yeah about the needing a professional aspect to feel like a grownup. Mine's being a parish councillor. Nobody's wife, nobody's mum, but a brain and a mouth and a sense of purpose. That's healthy for me, and what's healthy for my sanity, benefits my family too.

MisterE, I frequently enjoy your posts and don't by any means wish to cause offence, so please come back at me in goodnatured debate on this. I really hope we have more common ground than your initial post perhaps suggested.

[Keela]

RC and TC.... you've just about covered it all!

I've 4 kids (18 down to 11 now). I had 2 1/2 yrs without "working" at all when the eldest 2 were small, but after that I worked out at night when OH could look after them. Eventually youngest also spent a couple of mornings a week in a creche to let me work out. Then when she started school I did more, working gradually up through several years at 80% to full time this year.

Whilst I loved being at home with my kids I also love going out to work. Certainly now that the house is empty during the day I would go spare mad to have to be "home alone". (I enjoy an empty house provided it doesn't happen more than once every couple of months! )

Sometimes this is completely exhausting, but I believe it helps my children to grow up realising that the priviledges they enjoy in life are earned not given.

Mr E I agree with you in principle. Just in practice, I feel differently.

[MisterE]

Muwhahahahaaaa no no like I said you guys are more right than me. Of course everyone should have choice of work. Plus some women who work parent more than those that stay home and work themselves silly. I admire women more than anything on this planet. The trouble is on places like this board with good decent people you'll only find people who do things right or as best they can. But for every one of those I can throw in a 100 bad examples of women leaving kids alone under age in the home to work to buy more junk than what they need. Or to get up a status ladder. Women in general look down on women that stay home and be a homemaker and I hate that so much. I see so much lack of parenting again it shocks me. But on here you will not find people like that. What I hate more than anything now is the old we are bloody equal and I'm off out to work, along with kick her out to work to pay for that holiday n car etc has turned into necessity women now have to work. Plus lets face it on the whole they still do more than their fair share of the homemaking etc. Its so hard to put into words becasue comparing our views on here is like chalk and cheese of the real world. I got two boys and all I drum into them is family is the most important thing in the world and rasing children is the ultimate job there is nothing that is more important. Probably we are all in agreement and I'm just a dinosaur like I said and probably my life experiences may not be the best ones to draw from as I've got so many bad examples to good ones.

[MisterE]

PS Can we assume as well that women can be man n vice versa ie I'm talking about a second person going out to work. God people I'm beginning to sound like Alf Garnet rofl - do you mums know where I live, last thing I need is a mumsy slipper launched at me from 90 yards! I notice all the lads are hiding, yip pass MrE another shovel he's digging that hole again - their probably drinking their cans laughing at me suffer God could you imagine me on that loose women show - they'd lynch me.