Run your house from your car

[Ballard]

Don?t know if this is the correct place to post this but here goes...

Possibly this winter/spring or next there will power cuts, these could be rolling 2-4 hour cuts, or spontaneous when demand exceeds supply.

The immediate problem (for me) would be the loss of my freezer, and all the produce stored in it.

This led me onto the idea of getting a small generator to power the freezer during such power cuts. Well I got one, and I started it the other day, Jesus it?s noisy. It?s also not very efficient.

I just wondered if it would be possible to use a car as a temporary source of electricity, by using an inverter plugged into the lighter socket?

I guess you would need 3KW?s or so the car could be running to maintain the battery, any ideas?

[skeptik]

Possibly this winter/spring or next there will power cuts, these could be rolling 2-4 hour cuts, or spontaneous when demand exceeds supply.

The immediate problem (for me) would be the loss of my freezer, and all the produce stored in it.

If your freezer is reasonably full the best thing you can do is cover it with whatever spare insulation - old blankets , bubble wrap, straw, newspapers - you can lay your hands on and then just NOT open it. That will keep everything frozen through any power cut. Should be ok for a day or two. The bigger the freezer the longer it will stay frozen. A large well filled chest freezer I wouldnt worry about. Just dont open it!

Running off the car I think would be even more inefficient that running off a generator.

If you did have a generator specifically to keep the food in the freezer frozen, you would only have to run it once or twice a day, not continuously. As soon as the compressor on the freezer cuts out i.e. its down to the required temperature, just switch off the generator...

[mikepepler]

Your generator is probably producing a nice smooth sine wave AC output, which is fine for running the freezer. An inverter of a 12V battery will produce something closer to a "square" wave, which is fine for somethings, put probably not for your freezer, which is likely to have an induction motor in it - these need a smooth AC input.

You can get inverters that produce a good quality AC output, but they cost hundreds of pounds - the ones you see for less than ?100 will not do it. Check out the inverter data sheet to see if it says "not suitable for inductive loads" - if it says that, it's produce a "square" AC output.

[clv101]

I've run computers and oscilloscopes from an inverter in a diesel van. So it's certainly doable. You would be able to run your whole house of many kW from a decent sized car engine but it wouldn't be cheap in fuel. If you are trying to maintain your households regular electricity supply for a few hours during a power cut and aren't bothered about burning a tank of fuel to do it, then your car's not a bad choice.

[mikepepler]

I've run computers and oscilloscopes from an inverter in a diesel van. So it's certainly doable.

Yes, a lot of stuff will run off a cheap inverter, especially electronics, as they have a transformer and then end up producing regulated DC, so they are less fussy about the quality of the AC input. It's just the odd devices (like many fridges) which use induction motors, and "standard" fluorescent tubes which won't work properly. Apparently the "low energy" fluorescent bulbs that go into normal light sockets will work, as they rectify the input to DC and use electronics to run the tube, rather than relying on inductors, etc. like an old-style tube.

[heinbloed]

To Ballard :
I'm not an electrician , so some more basic logic from my side . As said above : cover your fridge in insulation material without hindering the heat exchanger doing his job. And then find out if there is some permanent space available , space inside that isn't of any immidiate use . Take some flexible containers with a lid , filled with water, and place them there ( bottles, jars , tupper ware ect.). These would work like some cooling agregates similar to a camping cooling box . Once they have taken up the fridge temperature ( and stay there ) they will help to overcome power/temperature fluctuations . They would also save energy directly since when you open the door of the fridge a certain amount of warm air will enter the fridge in exchange for cold air falling out of it .
This exchange could be avoided by replacing the volatile air in the fridge with solid things .
My grandmother kept canned food in the fridge and I was wondering why , thinking that wasn't necessarry . She was only replacing air -that would drop out from the fridge by opening the door - with a stable object replacing the air . Pure logic .
A and A plus and double A rated freezers have drawers instead of shelves to make use of the same effect , to stop air exchanging .

[Joe]

I'm not being funny, but in the long run the chances are that you'll have to get used to life without a freezer.

Why not invest the time you're currently spending working out how to make your freezer work off a generator/car/batteries etc in learning and practicing how to preserve food using traditional methods such as salting, smoking, pickling etc?

[Ballard]

Yup, doing all of those as well...

[Joe]

Good for you - fancy teaching me?

[Ballard]

no probs, I suggest you get a copy of 'Food From Your Garden'. (circa 1970), Invaluable...

[mikepepler]

no probs, I suggest you get a copy of 'Food From Your Garden'. (circa 1970), Invaluable...

Is that by Brian Walkden? Wasn't sure when trying to track it down on DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.

[Ballard]

FOOD FROM YOUR GARDEN

"All you need to know to grow, cook and preserve your own fruit and vegetables

This book will show you how to produce fresh inexpensive fruit and vegetables from your own garden and how to cook it anyone can have green fingers it's simply a matter of following straightforward instructions and applying commonsense

Black and white and colour illustrations.

Hardback 380 pages ..published 1977."

Ebay link
[Admin: Link edited to fit page width]

There are usually a couple of copies on eBay or DODGY TAX AVOIDERS, it usually goes for about ?26 (that's a lot of spuds), but it is by far the most comprehensive and easily understood book on home food production / storage.

[Joe]

Cool, thanks. Anyone else think a powerswitch book club might be a good idea? I'm just thinking about the burgeoning collection of books I'm amassing and wondering whether all the other Peak Oilers are buying the same titles. If so, maybe we could take advantage of bulk orders...

Alternatively, perhaps selling self-sufficiency, survival, permaculture etc books through the site would be a way of generating additional finance?

[mikepepler]

Alternatively, perhaps selling self-sufficiency, survival, permaculture etc books through the site would be a way of generating additional finance?

We already refer people through to DODGY TAX AVOIDERS and get a small cut here

We've wondered about selling books, but to be honest the two DVDs we currently sell are about all James and I have time to deal with (he deals with payment and I do the shipping).

We've discussed setting up a PowerSwitch-affiliated shop, which would split its profits between PowerSwitch and the person running it. If anybody has some spare time, is familiar with what would be involved in this, and would like to earn some cash as well as helping our cause, please email me! [/url]

[Joe]

I guess the ideal place for such a shop would be in a "surviving post peak oil" style intentional community that also ran workshops & training courses etc; something along the lines of CAT (http://www.cat.org.uk/) or findhorn (http://www.ecovillagefindhorn.com/), but more explicitly about the issues of peak oil.

It seems that a lot of people have been skirting around this subject on the forums but - please correct me if I'm wrong - people seem reluctant to say "let's set one up".