And this is just the beginning.

Ballard · Post by **Ballard** » 17 Sep 2005, 22:44

Tess,

I often have these feelings of overwhelming helplessness, trapped in a system from which it is virtually impossible to escape, knowing that you are doing things, which are fundamentally wrong. With all my best intentions the changes that I have made to my lifestyle so far seem at times fairly pitiful, to actually live a life that is balanced with nature is so god damned difficult.

I feel increasingly uncomfortable with the system, in which we exist. I have the overwhelming desire to correct the balance, and I will do what I can to this end.

Having two kids under 4 does not help, when I look toward their future I wonder what kind of a world I have brought them into, what kind of a world they are going to inherit. I hope to make the changes I can with the time I have available, I don?t want to change the world however, just my own impact upon it.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 17 Sep 2005, 22:46

skeptik wrote:I hope you leave can leave the anger behind. I've always found its not conducive to clear thought.

It passes, and leaves change in its wake. It would be nicer for it not to exist, but since it does, I use it as best I can. Your compassion is appreciated.

peaky · Post by **peaky** » 17 Sep 2005, 22:52

If my workplace is anything to go by, it's not apathy or powerlessness, it's complete disinterest. That may sound like apathy, but I think that apathy requires acknowledging a situation and not feeling like anything can be done. Most people at work when they go to the news sites as everyone does during lunch, says something like "Did you see that 5 year old raped by an 8 year old, It's shocking isn't it". "Look England are 10 for 5" (or whatever

) "I downloaded (xxx pirated movie) last night and watched it and it's crap". "Are you getting the new Xbox?" And so on. The front page may be airlines in the states about to go bankrupt, gas prices up 14% - again, oil at $70, melting ice caps, waste mountains, falling water tables. You'd never know. It's not an issue worthy of a sentence to just about anyone in the office.

In our room we have 2 waste bins and a recyling box. Each day the guys go down to the sandwich shop, each day buy sarnis which are in paper bags and all in one plastic bag. After eating the sarnis, all the paper bags get thrown in the waste bin. As does the plastic bag. This cycle repeats from Monday to Friday. it's quite amazing to watch amongst a load of 'intelligent' late 20's men. Their brains can't even engage enough to think, "Put the paper in the reclying box and keep the plastic bag and use it tomorrow.

" My boss used to have a bag beside his desk which probably contained about 200 plastic bags because every day he got a new one from the shop and put it in the bag. It never occurred that maybe he could take of them and use it each time. I'm sometimes amazed that he could tie his own shoelaces, but he's a manager of 4 departments, has been to university and has wife and young child. I find the entire thing unbelievable.

You can perhaps tell that I'm not entirely happy with my work colleagues

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 17 Sep 2005, 23:03

Ballard wrote:I don?t want to change the world however, just my own impact upon it.

I don't want to change the world. I just want it to be different...

I can change my perception and be content any time... slip easily into that career city girl thing... buy another pair of shoes... date a stockbroker, maybe adopt a child and give myself something to work for...

I was raised for that world. My mother would be delighted. But it seems wrong to me. It just seems wrong. My anger is at myself because I am paralysed in pathetic inaction. My anger is the only way I know to make myself change, to make myself move. My anger is not at the world, my anger is not righteous, my anger is just a tool to burn away the apathy, before the apathy sucks away my life.

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 17 Sep 2005, 23:17

peaky wrote: And so on. The front page may be airlines in the states about to go bankrupt, gas prices up 14% - again, oil at $70, melting ice caps, waste mountains, falling water tables. You'd never know. It's not an issue worthy of a sentence to just about anyone in the office.(

I dont try to discuss it with anybody. Doesn't seem to do any good. People will buy into it in their own time. Boiling Frog. Occasionally I just come out with "Drink up, the worlds about to end" as per Ford Prefect in the first episode of Hitch Hikers guide to the Galaxy.

Of course, nobody in the pub believes him until they can actually hear and see the Vogon demolition fleet in the sky outside.

Landlord: Is there anything we can do

Ford Prefect: Well you could put a paper bag over your head

Landlord: Will that help?

Ford Prefect: It wont do any harm

So they do.

peaky · Post by **peaky** » 17 Sep 2005, 23:18

Tess wrote:I don't want to change the world. I just want it to be different...

Doesn't one lead to the other Tess? I've always loved that quote, Ghandi I think, "Be the change you want to see in the world". I know it takes a while on your own though

, that's why the rest of us are along for the PO ride with you

There's a lot of anger in you I feel Tess and it worries me that it could become counterproductive. I feel really angry at loads of stuff too, but I find it helps to let it be the kindling for a positive fire. (Sorry if I sound all preachy or something). I feel that you have so much positive stuff to give and from the other 'yearning' thread you have such a big heart and a desire to heal the planet that it would be a waste of your talents if you end up getting a bit 'bitter and twisted'. OK, give me a good slap now. Just there...

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 17 Sep 2005, 23:41

peaky wrote:There's a lot of anger in you I feel Tess and it worries me that it could become counterproductive.

You sound like Obiwan

Yes there's a lot of anger in me. First at my parents, then at the world, now at myself. It is the knowledge that I'm never quite good enough. No words can heal it. I can go a few months without being troubled, but then somehow the control slips and I'm channelling Red Tara, or Shiva, or both.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 17 Sep 2005, 23:45

peaky wrote:I feel really angry at loads of stuff too, but I find it helps to let it be the kindling for a positive fire.

I would do that, but as human beings go, I'm particularly unskilled at anything positive at the moment. I have no way to channel the anger except to write (which is like wading through mud sometimes).

EmptyBee · Post by **EmptyBee** » 17 Sep 2005, 23:54

I think I understand. I can't help see everything through the lens of energy usage. The fact that we take cheap abundant energy for granted and we're surrounded by its utilisation (and waste!) in our daily lives makes me feel like an energy obsessed monomaniac.

Pointing out the insanity that surrounds us makes me feel like a lunatic, when everyone else is blissfully going about their lives in what Kunstler calls the 'consensus trance'. How did we come to see this situation as normal? Everything just feels fundamentally disconnected from reality, in politics, in money, in television: like a pervasive collective psychosis.

I think you can see an awareness of this insanity in our ironic popular culture, in film music and other media. It's visible in our mental health: 1/3 people who go to their GP go with symptoms of depression according to The Independent. I suppose the one thing that sometimes makes me almost suspicious about myself and my own impartiality about the reality of peak oil (or its seriousness) is my tendency to filter in anything that fits my profoundly negative view of our society and collective direction to the extent that I sometimes think I've become a misanthrope. But it's not really misanthropy, it's just deep skepticism about just what it is we think we're doing here.

All around me are familiar faces
Worn out places
Worn out faces
Bright and early for the daily races
Going no where
Going no where
Their tears are filling up their glasses
No expression
No expression
Hide my head I wanna drown my sorrow
No tomorrow
No tomorrow
And I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
The dreams in which I?m dying are the best I?ve ever had
I find it hard to tell you
I find it hard to take
When people run in circles its a very very
Mad world
Mad world

Ok I think I have a tendency to go overboard with the negativity. Sorry

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 18 Sep 2005, 00:00

EmptyBee wrote:Ok I think I a tendency to go overboard with the negativity. Sorry

Just now I find it soothing. Thankyou!

Rooks · Post by **Rooks** » 18 Sep 2005, 10:43

I felt the film "Matrix" summed things up pretty well with the concept of Blue and Red Pills. Taking the Red Pill gives you answers, some of which upset and disturb, whilst the Blue Pill keeps you safe and warm in blissful ignorance.

I think people who have found this site are "Red Pill" takers. They know things aren't as happy or rosey as the media claims it to be. It can (and will) screw you up if you let it. The trick is to live in the now (or at least the short term) because we live in a time of social flux and it's impossible to tell what will happen next.

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 18 Sep 2005, 11:37

EmptyBee wrote:Pointing out the insanity that surrounds us makes me feel like a lunatic, when everyone else is blissfully going about their lives in what Kunstler calls the 'consensus trance'. How did we come to see this situation as normal?

Because we grew up with it. That which we are familiar with feels 'normal'. The 'consensus trance' is how human society operates - we are social animals and we like to hang with the group. The consensus does shift, but generally very slowly.

We change our environment to suit ourselves, and what we can't change we adapt to physically and mentally.

So.. we live on the side of a volcano. It's a good bet, the soil is very fertile and most people survive most of the time. Even if we 'know' that a catastrophic eruption is at some point inevitable. Would you worry if you'd grown up in Naples?

What, me worry?

beev · Post by **beev** » 18 Sep 2005, 16:38

Is that a picture of you, skeptic? I somehow got the impression you were a bit older.

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 18 Sep 2005, 18:33

beev wrote:Is that a picture of you, skeptic? I somehow got the impression you were a bit older.

Its a very old picture.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 18 Sep 2005, 23:29

You sound like a perfectionist Tess?

The trouble with us perfectionists is that unless things are as we think they ought to be, we get upset. Now some of us can accept that situation and go on, but some, like you Tess continue to be upset. Is that the way you feel? If so, then you need to chill babe. And if you can't chill you need to learn to chill, otherwise your life may be shorter than you want it to be........

If I have the wrong end of the stick then apologies.

None of us know for sure how tomorrow (or next year) will be. I have let my wife and three boys know about PO. This is not an easy thing to do as I don't want to take hope, joy and expectation away from my boys. But I have explained that I think it likely that things will not go on as we have seen over the last 50 -100 years. This can be very tough on young teenagers. There is a considerable psychological effect that I am very aware of and I would not tell them if I were not pretty convinced of what was to come about. It continues to make me sad, if not depressed.....

So we all have issues. Such is life. I hope you can get over your anger Tess.