Wind-fuelled 'supergrid' offers clean power to Europe

[Aurora]

http://environment.independent.co.uk/cl ... 194088.ece

The Independent - 25/11/07

An audacious proposal to build a 5,000-mile electricity supergrid, stretching from Siberia to Morocco and Egypt to Iceland, would slash Europe's CO2 emissions by a quarter, scientists say.

The scheme would make the use of renewable energy, particularly wind power, so reliable and cheap that it would replace fossil fuels on an unprecedented scale, serving 1.1 billion people in 50 countries. Europe's 1.25bn tons of annual CO2 output from electricity generation would be wiped out. High-voltage direct current (HVDC) lines, up to 100 times as long as the alternating current (AC) cables carried by the National Grid's pylons, would form the system's main arteries. While AC lines are the international standard, they leak energy. HVDC lines are three times as efficient, making them cost effective over distances above 50 miles.

Building the supergrid would require an investment of ?$80bn (?40bn), plus the cost of the wind turbines ? a fraction of the ?1 trillion the EU expects to pay for a 20 per cent reduction of its carbon footprint by 2020. The average price of the electricity generated would be just 4.6 euro cents per kWh, competitive with today's rates, which are likely to rise as fossil fuels run out.

Yet while several governments have expressed interest, Britain is not among them, says the scientist behind the proposal. "We have the technical abilities to build such a supergrid within three to five years," said Dr Gregor Czisch, an energy systems expert at the University of Kassel in Germany. "We just need to commit to this big long-term strategy."

Many supporters of renewable energy see it as a small-scale technology, but Dr Gordon Edge of the British Wind Energy Association, said the megaproject was essential. "European policy is only just waking up to this," he said.

The supergrid would draw power from massed turbines in a band of countries to Europe's south and east that have above average wind potential, feeding it to the industrialised centres of Europe. The scale would overcome the biggest obstacle to wind power ? its unreliability. In smaller networks, such as Britain's National Grid, calm weather could cut production to zero. But the supergrid would cover a region so large that the wind would always be blowing somewhere.

[MacG]

They better find some copper to recycle for such a project. The coper in the ground is miserably running out. The BEST ores assay 0.8% today.

[oilslick]

?40bn seems a bit ambitious to me...does that mean when (ha ha) we get our money back from NR they could just do it?

Suspect there's a bit of Olympic style adding up there.

[adam2]

They better find some copper to recycle for such a project. The coper in the ground is miserably running out. The BEST ores assay 0.8% today.

I presume that cables will be aluminium, as most large ones are, this material is in plentiful supply, though extremly energy intensive to refine.
Someone rather aptly described aluminium as "solid electricity"on account of the huge energy consumption of aluminium smelters.

Aluminium production is a continous process that can not be readily or frequently started/stopped. However the rate of production and thus the power used can be varied within limits, and this has been proposed to better match supply and demand for electricity.

[syberberg]

They better find some copper to recycle for such a project. The coper in the ground is miserably running out. The BEST ores assay 0.8% today.

There's already some HVDC cables running in the European grid, like the Baltic Cable between Sweden and Germany, so it's not as if they'll have to replace the entire grid...just about 99% of it. It's about time we had an HVDC grid anyway due to it being far more efficient than AC.

Besides which, if they did it in sections, couldn't they recycle the old AC cable that's just been removed and turn it into HVDC cable for a replacement section?

[MacG]

They better find some copper to recycle for such a project. The coper in the ground is miserably running out. The BEST ores assay 0.8% today.

There's already some HVDC cables running in the European grid, like the Baltic Cable between Sweden and Germany, so it's not as if they'll have to replace the entire grid...just about 99% of it. It's about time we had an HVDC grid anyway due to it being far more efficient than AC.

Besides which, if they did it in sections, couldn't they recycle the old AC cable that's just been removed and turn it into HVDC cable for a replacement section?

It's not just the cable. It's the coils in those little gennys also.

[adam2]

[quote="syberberg
Besides which, if they did it in sections, couldn't they recycle the old AC cable that's just been removed and turn it into HVDC cable for a replacement section?[/quote]

IF this scheme goes ahead, then I doubt that much, if any, of the existing AC grid will be dismantled.
It will still be needed for local and regional distribution. AC is superior for this application as the voltage may be easily altered by means of a simple transformer.

DC is more efficient for long distance bulk power transmission, and is also usefull for connecting together the grids of different nations that may be running at slightly differing frequencies.
However to turn HVDC into AC requires very costly and complicated equipment, to install such for each district or town would be uneconomic.

I would expect that the proposed HVDC supergrid would be connected into the existing AC grid at only a few locations in each country.

[RenewableCandy]

HVDC would also be rather good for this:

concentrate...

Every year, each square kilometre of hot desert receives solar energy equivalent to 1.5 million barrels of oil. Multiplying by the area of deserts world-wide, this is nearly a thousand times the entire current energy consumption of the world. Given current concerns about energy supplies and the need to cut CO2 emissions, these rather startling statistics seem to be a cause for optimism. But, you may very reasonably ask: Can we tap into this enormous source of energy at a reasonable cost? Can we get it to where people are living? And, if those things are possible, what other snags or problems might there be? The purpose of this article is to describe some answers to those questions and suggest that one?s initial sense of optimism may be something more than just a mirage.

The key technology for tapping in to the solar energy of desert regions is ?concentrating solar power? (CSP). This is not some futuristic possibility like fusion nuclear power. It is the remarkably simple idea of using mirrors to concentrate direct sunlight to create heat and then using the heat to raise steam to drive turbines and generators, just like a conventional power station.

A useful feature of CSP is that it is possible to store solar heat in melted salts ...

[syberberg]

MacG: Ah yes, that would be rather problematic. But if we want to keep the electricity running, we'll have to get the required copper from somewhere. I just wonder how much there is laying around in scrap yards. I never actually considered it before, but how much copper is there in the average car? I do agree that it'll take a huge effort to get all the copper we'll need.

adam2: Thanks for expanding on that. So it'll most likely be a combined approach? That makes sense, HVDC for the longest cables, DC for, say, power station to substation and then AC from there to end user? Would that be practical/more economical?

RC: That would be great if combined properly along coastal regions with desalination and some extra wind power as well.

[SaturnV]

Investing in major infrastructure projects like this does not make sense as a lack of fuel will stop them in their tracks, with the only thing to show for our effort is a lot of useless holes in the ground. In fact the fossil fuels that will be burnt to build it all will probably tip us into run-away global warming.

People are talking as if we can have business as usual with new transport infrastructure, new electricity infrastructure, new passive solar houses, new new new...but the reality is all of this new stuff is going to have to be built with fossil energy, and the only solution that works is to just build less stuff.

[Cabrone]

IF this scheme goes ahead, then I doubt that much, if any, of the existing AC grid will be dismantled.

Yes, I would imagine that any supergrid would be built to supply the existing transmission and distribution networks within each country.

The 3-5 year build estimate in the original article sounds ambitious but the idea is a good one. When it comes to renewable energy, the bigger the network, the greater the ability to absorb the natural variablity of power being generated.

I hope they do it even though the UK, as usual, is dragging its feet.

[SunnyJim]

Investing in major infrastructure projects like this does not make sense as a lack of fuel will stop them in their tracks, with the only thing to show for our effort is a lot of useless holes in the ground. In fact the fossil fuels that will be burnt to build it all will probably tip us into run-away global warming.

People are talking as if we can have business as usual with new transport infrastructure, new electricity infrastructure, new passive solar houses, new new new...but the reality is all of this new stuff is going to have to be built with fossil energy, and the only solution that works is to just build less stuff.

Hear hear. Less is a four letter word, and one we appear to be terrified of.

I don't see electricity as the most vital component of quality of life. Water, food, adequate clothing & shelter, security and companionship are surely higher concerns? Surely we should be putting more effort into making sure that we can source these in a local and sustainable way?

[oilslick]

Hear hear. Less is a four letter word, and one we appear to be terrified of.

I don't see electricity as the most vital component of quality of life. Water, food, adequate clothing & shelter, security and companionship are surely higher concerns? Surely we should be putting more effort into making sure that we can source these in a local and sustainable way?

Don't forget that at present, all those things you mentioned are totally dependent on some sort of electricity supply so you can't really talk about them in isolation.

Without electricity, how does the water come out the tap? No electricity = not very nice existence. Just look at parts of the world where they might see an hour a day if they're lucky and life doesn't look too rosey. Not so bad out in the wilds where electricity never existed and the population is therefore dispersed but apply it to a densely populated country and anarchy would follow...

[SunnyJim]

Hear hear. Less is a four letter word, and one we appear to be terrified of.

I don't see electricity as the most vital component of quality of life. Water, food, adequate clothing & shelter, security and companionship are surely higher concerns? Surely we should be putting more effort into making sure that we can source these in a local and sustainable way?

Don't forget that at present, all those things you mentioned are totally dependent on some sort of electricity supply so you can't really talk about them in isolation.

Without electricity, how does the water come out the tap? No electricity = not very nice existence. Just look at parts of the world where they might see an hour a day if they're lucky and life doesn't look too rosey. Not so bad out in the wilds where electricity never existed and the population is therefore dispersed but apply it to a densely populated country and anarchy would follow...

Indeed. But which would be the more resillient and low energy response? To build lots of local rainwater harvesting plants (house by house?) or to spend millions (billions?) on a large infrastructure that is a single point of failure? People can go along way to make their own environment more resillient, and much of that has to do with changing to a local mindset. Lots of local energy production (like Guilford) seems more resillient and cost effective to me....

[mikepepler]

I wonder if heating is going to be the key demand for electricity in future. Once our gas has run out, we'll discover that we can only heat about 10%-ish of the homes in the UK with the available sustainable biomass. OK, so we could super-insulate as many homes as possible, and maybe get a bit further.

In the long run though, I think if we're going to keep the same number of homes in the UK and heat them all, the only way we'll do it is through ground source heat pumps, and the electricity will need to come form wind, wave and tide. A supergrid will help smooth out demand and supply variability.

Any thoughts? I've not considered all the possibilities by any means...