Energy descent will kill off variety in our lives

bobthebaker · Post by **bobthebaker** » 20 Nov 2007, 21:13

You should keep seeds in the fridge over winter to fool them into thinking it really is winter (if that makes sense!!). Thus the seeds conserves it's energy until the appropriate time.

Kentucky Fried Panda · Post by **Kentucky Fried Panda** » 20 Nov 2007, 21:24

I furnished my whole house with furniture thrown into skips. Looking around my lounge, the only thing in it I actually bought is the DELL I'm typing on now.
I think there will always be free scavenge available to those less fussy. I don't care about furniture. A steel pole braced into the corner of a room is a wardrobe, a bed can be a mattress on the floor, chairs can be packing crates and tables cable reels.

"You buy furniture. You tell yourself, this is the last sofa I will ever need in my life. Buy the sofa, then for a couple years you're satisfied that no matter what goes wrong, at least you've got your sofa issue handled. Then the right set of dishes. Then the perfect bed. The drapes. The rug. Then you're trapped in your lovely nest, and the things you used to own, now they own you."

littlejimmy · Post by **littlejimmy** » 20 Nov 2007, 22:12

"Freedom is like too many choices".

All this variety we have is just an illusion. Choice and opportunity aren't real, they're just mass marketed dross (usually made in China). Quality food and goods come from true artisans, often supplying within a small local area.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 21 Nov 2007, 13:52

I for one will be happy to see the demise of pointless industries such as those in the article. Far from being a loss of variety, people will start having to think instead of just turning up the thermostat. The collective ingenuity of the human race needs space and freedom to be fully utilised instead of relying on unfixable components and far-way energy.

When Ireland taxed the plastic carrier bag some years ago (one of the few commendable things the government has ever done) a number of jobs were lost because of the drop in demand. Shame! Not. The real shame is that we have to create such jobs in the first place.

Last time I was in Tesco (sometimes go in there just to be amazed, not to buy anything!) there were organic apples and strawberries from the USA, no doubt flown here, at the height of the apple and strawberry season here in Ireland. Talk about bananas!

Local, fair trade, organic, in recycled, reusable packaging, is the only way. It will come. It is coming. For some, it's here.

littlejimmy · Post by **littlejimmy** » 21 Nov 2007, 19:42

emordnilap wrote:I for one will be happy to see the demise of pointless industries such as those in the article. Far from being a loss of variety, people will start having to think instead of just turning up the thermostat. The collective ingenuity of the human race needs space and freedom to be fully utilised instead of relying on unfixable components and far-way energy.

When Ireland taxed the plastic carrier bag some years ago (one of the few commendable things the government has ever done) a number of jobs were lost because of the drop in demand. Shame! Not. The real shame is that we have to create such jobs in the first place.

Last time I was in Tesco (sometimes go in there just to be amazed, not to buy anything!) there were organic apples and strawberries from the USA, no doubt flown here, at the height of the apple and strawberry season here in Ireland. Talk about bananas!

Local, fair trade, organic, in recycled, reusable packaging, is the only way. It will come. It is coming. For some, it's here.

That's where we've been going wrong. Jobs (and profit) have come above everything other consideration. Too many countries have been putting short-term economic gain before long-term ecological loss.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 22 Nov 2007, 10:29

littlejimmy wrote:
emordnilap wrote:I for one will be happy to see the demise of pointless industries such as those in the article. Far from being a loss of variety, people will start having to think instead of just turning up the thermostat. The collective ingenuity of the human race needs space and freedom to be fully utilised instead of relying on unfixable components and far-way energy.

When Ireland taxed the plastic carrier bag some years ago (one of the few commendable things the government has ever done) a number of jobs were lost because of the drop in demand. Shame! Not. The real shame is that we have to create such jobs in the first place.

Last time I was in Tesco (sometimes go in there just to be amazed, not to buy anything!) there were organic apples and strawberries from the USA, no doubt flown here, at the height of the apple and strawberry season here in Ireland. Talk about bananas!

Local, fair trade, organic, in recycled, reusable packaging, is the only way. It will come. It is coming. For some, it's here.
That's where we've been going wrong. Jobs (and profit) have come above everything other consideration. Too many countries have been putting short-term economic gain before long-term ecological loss.

Same problem with the recent approval of a domestic waste incinerator here in Ireland. There's money and jobs involved but no thought that maybe we've too much waste in the first place. It costs a lot of money to produce, ship, collect and finally burn waste - and that money ends up being concentrated in a few already-bulging pockets. The consumer pays for the whole lot of it and then whoomph, all this material is gone! Mad or what? Waste is seen as a linear thing, when it should be a loop or circle.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 22 Nov 2007, 15:10

emordnilap wrote: Same problem with the recent approval of a domestic waste incinerator here in Ireland. There's money and jobs involved but no thought that maybe we've too much waste in the first place. It costs a lot of money to produce, ship, collect and finally burn waste - and that money ends up being concentrated in a few already-bulging pockets. The consumer pays for the whole lot of it and then whoomph, all this material is gone! Mad or what? Waste is seen as a linear thing, when it should be a loop or circle.

Funny. WRAP (Waste and Resources Action Programme) released a report demonstrating that recycling creates more jobs than incinerating.

http://www.recycle-more.co.uk/nav/page651.aspx point no. 4.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 22 Nov 2007, 16:22

RenewableCandy wrote:Funny. WRAP (Waste and Resources Action Programme) released a report demonstrating that recycling creates more jobs than incinerating.

http://www.recycle-more.co.uk/nav/page651.aspx point no. 4.

Yes - I'd never dispute that. Common sense tells you it would be so, let alone a paid-for survey.

But that's not my point: I say, why try to manage millions of people's waste - why not tackle a comparatively few producers instead? An originator's bar code is all that's required plus the system to get waste back to its originator. When an originator gets all their rubbish back, then we would see some innovation. And it would create jobs! And it would obviate the need for any incinerator, saving more money.

Producers of rubbish may complain that it puts up the cost of goods to the consumer - but the consumer currently pays for absolutely everything anyway, so what's new?

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 22 Nov 2007, 16:32

Economic cannibalism - it's the future, definitely.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 22 Nov 2007, 17:00

Andy Hunt wrote:Economic cannibalism - it's the future, definitely.

[joke]Q: What do vegetarian cannibals eat? A: Swedes.[/joke]

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 22 Nov 2007, 17:03

emordnilap wrote:
Andy Hunt wrote:Economic cannibalism - it's the future, definitely.
[joke]Q: What do vegetarian cannibals eat? A: Swedes.[/joke]

Q: What do vegetarian worms eat?
A: Linda McCartney

[/coat]