Give me two good reasons, why I oughta stay....

[SunnyJim]

It was exactly that kind of frustration that made me post the question in the first place. I mean it's the most fundamental question to make isn't it really?

[snow hope]

Thanks Snow - I think my rant was out of pure frustration really.

I mean here is another typical example below -

Transport Secretary Ruth Kelly is set to outline plans for a third runway and possible sixth terminal at Heathrow.

Expansion at Heathrow could see flights increase from 480,000 a year to 800,000 - a move that will anger local residents and green campaigners.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7106524.stm

So Gordon Brown is considering/has acknowledged the need for 60 - 80% CO2 reduction whilst doubling air travel at the same time?

What a bunch of t w * t s.....

I read about this earlier to and I couldn't agree more - it makes me see red. And he must know more about the coming Peak than we do! Fecking twats alright!

[Vortex]

Near term pressures will always have priority over medium & long term concerns.

When PO starts rearing its head, it will become a near term problem ... by which time rationing and economic decline will be the only options.

[SunnyJim]

Perhaps he's thinking that we're going to need all those runways so that Russia can fly us in food parcels and aid?

[Vortex]

... nah ... the extra runway is needed to bring in the remaining population of Eastern Europe in the fastest & most efficient manner possible ...

Perhaps it is expected that China will move into that part of Europe when their environment finally fails ... a sort of "Musical Countries" game ..

[Adam1]

It was exactly that kind of frustration that made me post the question in the first place. I mean it's the most fundamental question to make isn't it really?

I must say that I found the "third runway" news very frustrating. I gave up on listening to the rest of the Today programme - a big step outside my comfort zone -

Maybe the plans to for a new runway will get overtaken by the PO-driven economic crisis and it will never get built.

Jim, do you really think that the UK is so different than anyway else in this respect?

[SunnyJim]

In respect to what Adam? Population density? Or in respect to BAU in the face of a completely changing world?

In the case of population density we're in a bad way.

As far as the latter goes, many European countries do seem more involved and commited to renewable energy and are focusing new development toward sustainability much more than GB. However, I'm not under any illusion that big business (such as the airlines) are going to roll over and let silly things like PO upset their 10 year plans.....

[WolfattheDoor]

IMHO the third runway is for the jets for the millionaires, Royal Family and politicians as they flee the rampaging mobs.

[Vortex]

Perhaps Hounslow is destined to be "The Last Redoubt"?

[Totally_Baffled]

Maybe the plans to for a new runway will get overtaken by the PO-driven economic crisis and it will never get built.

On the bright side (if it can be called that) , I think this may turn out to be true.

The plans are to have this built by 2020 , throw in a bit of delay for protests etc, then we are looking at 2025?

PO is going to be seriously hurting us by 2012 - so It wont get built surely?

[RenewableCandy]

This week's Signal Failures (Private Eye's news of c***ups in the transport world) highlights the entertaining little factoid that HMG's 'model' used for the 'predict' side of their 'predict-and-provide' transport policy (Called the NTM or National Transport Model) uses an oil price scenario of (wait for it...) $35 (@2004 prices) by 2010

You can now see why HMG thinks widenning the M25 etc is a goer while electric trams in Leeds would be a dead loss.

Perhaps such a bad mistake is being made because none of the people involved actually pays for their own transport...

(full details in print only, not on the 'net, sorry)

[Andy Hunt]

This week's Signal Failures (Private Eye's news of c***ups in the transport world) highlights the entertaining little factoid that HMG's 'model' used for the 'predict' side of their 'predict-and-provide' transport policy (Called the NTM or National Transport Model) uses an oil price scenario of (wait for it...) $35 (@2004 prices) by 2010

You can now see why HMG thinks widenning the M25 etc is a goer while electric trams in Leeds would be a dead loss.

Perhaps such a bad mistake is being made because none of the people involved actually pays for their own transport...

(full details in print only, not on the 'net, sorry)

That's very telling. Says to me that the mistake is being made because the government is merely putting into practice plans which were drawn up months and years ago.

Like an oil tanker, it takes miles and years for these juggernaut plans to stop and turn around.

"We can't change it now, we spent 3 years putting together that plan!"

[SunnyJim]

*** n.b. When I replied, Andy hadn't yet made his above post. Interesting we came to similar conclusions. ****

No, it's because these plans and models take so long to produce that by the time they are 'released' for use they are out of date. The model was probably made in 2000, when they were assuming a continuation of the trend of cheap oil.

You can see this all over government policy. Peak oil has really sneaked up on them. I really believe the goverment had total trust in the IEA. Poor buggers.

They must be SO busy at the moment. Heard from some planning officers last night. Theres a current big overhaul of the planning rules. A move from using your area development plan as a basis for planning decisions to using a new planning framework, which can be updated by small document revisions. Should make the whole planning system easier to change, and harder to understand and implement, but you can see why they want to do it. At the moment to change the system to allow wind gennys up without planning means reviewing a whole army of documentation, and waiting for enough revisions to allow the whole document to be revised and re-issued. The whole of the goverment process is so SLOW it is really hard to see how it can ever adapt in time to help us with things like PO.

[Andy Hunt]

"If it works, it's out-of-date" - Stafford Beer

[SunnyJim]

Where can we find a nice cuddly benevolent dictator eh?