What's on your PO shopping list?!

peaky · Post by **peaky** » 15 Sep 2005, 13:38

Has anyone any thoughts on the suitability of a gas powered fridge? A partner of mine had one and it seemeds to work really nicely and was absolutely silent. If was full-size too, not one of those tiny things you get in a caravan.

Ballard · Post by **Ballard** » 15 Sep 2005, 13:56

Candles,

I got one box (200) if the bistro candles, because they were cheap. Doesn't everyone have loads of candle holders I seem to get a new set for every birthday and christmas.

I also got 36 of the large diameter church candles that require no holder and burn for ages.

Post by **mikepepler** » 15 Sep 2005, 14:20

ewt wrote:Do you think I could use hexamine tablets in a kelly kettle? It seems almost ideal for it, although I probably wouldn't use them with the grill part (yuck smelly!).

Yes, I think you could. The instructions say you can burn anything in there, like wood, paper, whatever. I have a meths stove, and I expect the burner woud work OK in the kettle. The only thing to watch is that it's made of aluminium, so make sure what you're burning won't damage the base. For example, they warn you not to leave the kettle on with no water in it - I assume it would overheat.

ewt · Post by **ewt** » 15 Sep 2005, 14:27

Refrigeration is actually a bit of a luxury, in many ways. I've coped without it before, and while I prefer to have it if I can, I know I don't need it if there are other things to spend my money on.

There are solar refrigerators and freezers that run on 12V power; presumably these could be run from a generator, a mains adaptor, or indeed just solar panels. I'd want to go with something like that which can be run from various sources before I'd buy a gas appliance that only runs on propane.

If that fails, refrigeration by evaporation is pretty effective. Go learn how to make a simple evap refrigerator, and try to have the materials on hand.

All other things being equal, I'd buy a freezer rather than a refrigerator. If you ahve a freezer that works, you can rotate icepacks to keep other food cool, but with only a refrigerator you can't do any [i]fast[/i] long-term food storage.

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 15 Sep 2005, 14:48

A polystyrene box can work well for a few hours, for refrigeration.

Post by **mikepepler** » 15 Sep 2005, 15:47

ewt wrote:There are solar refrigerators and freezers that run on 12V power; presumably these could be run from a generator, a mains adaptor, or indeed just solar panels.

Measuerments show that using a mains inverter can lose you 15-20% of your power - best to get stuff that runs directly off 12V. I took this line recently when buying a solar panel, gel-cell lead acid battery and LED lights.

Another thing to watch with inverters is that they are often not able to power inductive loads. That includes some fluorescent lights, and many fridges and freezers. You can get inverters that will power inductive loads, but they cost hundreds of pounds, rather than tens. Another reason to run directly off your solar-charged 12V battery...

Blue Peter · Post by **Blue Peter** » 15 Sep 2005, 15:50

Ballard wrote:Candles,

Ed

As well as candles, are there any good, and SAFE, paraffin lamps or similar?

Peter.

ewt · Post by **ewt** » 15 Sep 2005, 19:21

mikepepler wrote:Measuerments show that using a mains inverter can lose you 15-20% of your power - best to get stuff that runs directly off 12V. I took this line recently when buying a solar panel, gel-cell lead acid battery and LED lights.

Another thing to watch with inverters is that they are often not able to power inductive loads. That includes some fluorescent lights, and many fridges and freezers. You can get inverters that will power inductive loads, but they cost hundreds of pounds, rather than tens. Another reason to run directly off your solar-charged 12V battery...

I'm talking about refrigerators and freezers that want 12V power, not using an inverter to step-up from 12V to mains. The reference to mains power was using an adaptor to convert the mains (240V) electricity to 12V. Yes, there is some power loss involved in this, but if it's cloudy and dark and you don't have a battery charged and your generator (can you get 12V generators?) has packed up but for some reason you have mains electric, you can still run the appliance.

My main point is that electricity is a lot more versatile for freezers than propane is. The propane has to be converted into electricity to run the freezer anyway, but you can only run the freezer on propane (unless you are gifted at hacking these things). With an electric one that runs on 12V you have a lot more options. Of course, if a freezer exists that runs on 12V electric or propane, that would be a neat thing to have.

Ballard · Post by **Ballard** » 15 Sep 2005, 20:18

I'm sure that the freezer in my parents camper ran off gas and 12v electric, you ran it on the van electricity supply whilst driving, and when you pulled up you switched to gas or the battery would go flat.

Anyone know any more?, this sounds like a good idea.

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 15 Sep 2005, 20:23

ewt wrote: The propane has to be converted into electricity to run the freezer anyway, but you can only run the freezer on propane (unless you are gifted at hacking these things)

Nops. The propane is not converted to electricity. There are three main principles for freezer/fridges:

a) Compressor. This one need mechanical movement, and I have only seen 110/120/230 V AC ones around. There might be 12 V DC versions, but I've never seen one. Please send a link if you know one. DC motors has a couple of design treats which make them unsuitable for 24/7/365 duty.

b) Absorbtion. These ones are driven by heat. Invented by Munthers and Von Platen in the 1930's. Heat can be provided by just about any source, propane, 12V, 110/120/230V whatever. Often found in caravans/campers. These friends are energy hogs! Extremely inefficient compared to modern compressor freezers and consume 5-20 times as much energy to chill the same volume and mass.

c) Thermoelectric (Peltier) The most inefficient of them all, but still convenient in a number of situations. The cooling element is extremely compact compared to compressor and absorbtion and it run best on 12V. If you have 12V (and a lot of it) and high requirements for portability and robustness, Peltier is the way to go. Best for cooling, rightout ridiculous to use for freezing.

Ballard · Post by **Ballard** » 15 Sep 2005, 20:24

yup, looks very inefficient,

Dometic RC1600 3 Way Fridge
33 Ltr Top opening absorption Fridge.
Ice making tray included
Durable plastic moulded casing
Comes with Piezo ignition.
Operates on either Gas, 240v or 12v.
Gas Consumption 187g per 24hrs.
Dimensions H 440mm x W 500mm x D 458mm
Manufacturers Ref: RC1600
Price: ?185.00 (Including: VAT at 17.5%)

http://www.barbecue-online.co.uk/acatal ... rs_18.html

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 15 Sep 2005, 21:15

Are there any "professional" pedal generators available?

Ippoippo · Post by **Ippoippo** » 16 Sep 2005, 02:24

Bandidoz wrote:Are there any "professional" pedal generators available?

I was wondering this too... missus and I need some excersise too anyway

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 16 Sep 2005, 11:18

Bandidoz wrote:Are there any "professional" pedal generators available?

Yeps. Saw them in the army some 30 years ago. Dont know if they still have them. Using a pedal generator is a superb way to learn to really marvel over how dirt cheap electricity you buy is...

hatchelt · Post by **hatchelt** » 20 Sep 2005, 09:08

Clive, just out of curiosity, where did you get the Potassium Iodate tablets and Sars masks from?