Yearning and Longing

[RevdTess]

Well Ive looked long and hard but I dont seem to have a 'spiritual dimension'... nothing inside answering to that description. I seem to be an atheist materialist... would ecologically enlightened perspective do you? I can cope with that.

Personally my idea of progress is antibiotics and Swiss chocolate. I wouldnt be here talking to you if it wasnt for the first , and I'm addicted to the second.

We already talked a bit about this earlier in the thread, cf "spirituality as emotion"... but the chocolate thing is a new and welcome addition to the debate

[isenhand]

but the chocolate thing is a new and welcome addition to the debate

Not with me it isn?t, not now that I?ve put on wait again

[peaky]

I've just found this thread about 6 years after everyone else and how wonderful to read the interplay between people.

I wanted to say something but don't know quite what - but thank you Tess for starting it off and helping to give shape to the 'other you' that we don't normally touch on these forums. Thanks Andy for some beautifully chosen words and to fishertrop for those amazing pictures.

As for things following you around wherever you go, I believe it was Jung who said "Whatever we do not deal with in life comes back to us as fate" and also, "Fate is the ability to do, gladly, that which I must do". It's how I feel about selling my home and leaving my job and stepping into the unknown - fated. I feel like the Fool in the Tarot deck, stepping of the cliff with his knapsack on his back Someone asked me recently, "Do you have to sell your house?" and I couldn't really give a logical answer. I know it's connected with PO but that isn't the whole story; it's that in my guts, in my heart, I know that I will never be able to grow into my future self if I don't, if I don't offer up my old self for sacrifice to allow the old me to die and the new me be born. To become who I need to be. It's a spiritual thing for me.

I'm a pagan (a Witch in fact - did I just say that in public? ) and my understanding of myself, and my relationship to nature and all that encompasses is certainly spiritual to me. It's a realisation of beauty, connection, understanding and meaning. The external cycles of life on Earth mirror the internal cycles in my own life: birth, growth, maturity and death. My spiritual path helps me connect with these and relate the outer to the inner. "What is above is like what is below and what is within is also like what is without".

I read once that "Technology is the knack of rearranging the world so that we don't have to experience it" which I think is very, very true. I feel that its place is support a rich and sustainable life and not to sustitute for life and damage this planet on which we all depend for our very meaning. A friend of mine wants to be "An enlightened peasant with Internet access" which I love the sound of. I agree that the internet is a wonderful thing, I believe it's one of our species' finest creations, despite all the garbage on it, because it enables people to connect like we're doing here. To allow us to find out about PO and many, many other things. It was said at school that the most powerful sentence ever written in English was that by E M Forster, "Only connect". A knife is technology, so is the printing of books, so is the making of jewellry. I don't want to see the baby out with the bath water. Technology is, in principle something to be welcomed I reckon, but not in the consuming and obsessive way it is invariably used today. And certainly not as almost an object of worship.

I'll stop here for now as I'm way over my lunch hour already

[RevdTess]

Someone asked me recently, "Do you have to sell your house?" and I couldn't really give a logical answer. I know it's connected with PO but that isn't the whole story; it's that in my guts, in my heart, I know that I will never be able to grow into my future self if I don't, if I don't offer up my old self for sacrifice to allow the old me to die and the new me be born. To become who I need to be. It's a spiritual thing for me.

I'm a pagan (a Witch in fact - did I just say that in public? ) and my understanding of myself, and my relationship to nature and all that encompasses is certainly spiritual to me. It's a realisation of beauty, connection, understanding and meaning.

Yes! Exactly how I feel. It's a spiritual thing, a necessary thing. The awesome beauty of the earth demands it.

I started this thread because after my trip to Snowdonia and CAT I felt closer than ever to a self-understanding that would liberate me to take action, and writing always helps that process for me.

In the past week I've been reading a book called "The Good Life - Up the Yukon Without a Paddle" by Dorian Amos. It's the story of how Dorian and his wife Bridget decided to leave a comfortable life in Cornwall and go exploring in north-west Canada. They don't quite know what they're looking for, and they are shambolically unprepared for what they find, but because they took action and because they were simply glad to be free, they found their heart's home in Dawson City by the Yukon where winter temperatures reach -40C. There Dorian and Bridget built themselves a log cabin by hand while just about surviving arctic winters with the aid of a woodstove, moose-meat, and the friendship of neighbours.

Dorian writes exquisitely about the motivations that caused him and his wife to find complete contentment in an extremely hard life where money means nothing because there's nothing to buy. He writes about the absolute beauty of the landscape, and the absolute need they feel to truly live, not simply exist in a dull cocoon of comfort.

And this has taught me more about my own motivations - that nagging need to escape the rat race, career and city that wont be denied. I once thought I was seeking community, but this is secondary. I once thought I needed to be 'successful', but I have met the glass ceiling and feel no urge to break it. I once felt that I should be a writer, but this would only be a way to live vicariously through my characters instead of living my own dreams. And finally I felt that I should become a master of all the green arts and sciences, so that when our society falls, I will have played my part in making the path smooth for future generations.

But now I understand that what underlies all these things is the challenge of living by my wits without a safety net; of living free and close to the beautiful earth regardless of the hardship involved. This is the call I must answer.

And so having understood this, my fear of failure is much weakened. It is easy to understand that the only failure is never to try, but only very recently have I begun to believe I could put it into practice.

One thing I envy Dorian Amos for - he never looked more than a couple of steps ahead. He was not a planner, and so he never saw the hundreds of reasons why he shouldn't truly live. Myself, I cannot move until I've covered all the bases. I need to work on that. I can't learn to swim from the side of the pool.

peaky, you mentioned selling your house - do you have escape plans of your own?

[isenhand]

But now I understand that what underlies all these things is the challenge of living by my wits without a safety net; of living free and close to the beautiful earth regardless of the hardship involved. This is the call I must answer.

I know that feeling well I would say that that is what it is to be human, or at least part of it.

[Andy Hunt]

Hi Peaky!

A witch, eh? Nice one! I know a lot of pagans 'round these parts (Lancashire), actually. I'm sure you have an excellent perspective on humanity's spiritual integrity with the natural world. I'm a particular fan of Celtic paganism, with its amazing artwork depicting the 'fundamental interconnectedness of all things'.

I found a very interesting article regarding the need for a "new ecological religion", which I will post the link for here as it seems to be relevant to this thread. Enjoy!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/conservation/ ... 99,00.html

Love and peace,

[MacG]

But now I understand that what underlies all these things is the challenge of living by my wits without a safety net; of living free and close to the beautiful earth regardless of the hardship involved. This is the call I must answer.

Hey, I used to be like that. Until the kids arrived. Dont know if you have kids, but for me they managed to screw up my priorities rather completely. In particular, the feeling of responsibility for the growing life made things look quite different.

[snow hope]

I am not a very spiritual person, but I do think I am changing....

Does anybody know that the Mayans were aware of the phases of Venus (like the moon)? We need binoculars or a telescope to see this with our own eyes. How did they know about it? Is anybody aware that the Mayans and before them the Olmecs, developed a calendar that is more accurate than our Gregorian Calendar? It is based upon the Sun, the Moon and Venus.

The Mayan calendar ends on the 21st December 2012. On this day, the Sun is at the exact galactic centre of the Milky Way. This cannot be a coincidence! I have read up on this subject about three years ago. I was astonished by what I found. I read this book and it opened my eyes very wide, ultimately leading me to find out about PO, http://www.knowledge.co.uk/xxx/cat/mayan/

Also try this link if you are interested.... http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html

[peaky]

Tess, you write so beautifully and expressively. Perhaps there's a path in writing for you?

My escape plan, such as it is; sell my house. Rent. Leave my job. Take 6 months out to clear my head of all the junk that's swirling around in there. I find that when I get rid of stuff that's just hanging around at home - old books I'll never reread, clothes I won't wear again - I feel better. I've got a pile in the corner upstairs now and I think I'll add a sofa, chest of drawers and so on to it. I want just a few things, ideally beautiful and personal things around me because I feel lighter and more nimble that way. I need to do the same to my head. I've had years of 'a salary at the end of the month', 'bricks & mortar' and a kind of timidity in following my real desires, in some areas anyway, for some time. I have a poem that I found shortly after my last partner died which I've had in my kitchen for some time and it speaks of this future that I need very much:

I will not die an unlived life.
I will not live in fear
of falling or catching fire.
I choose to inhabit my days,
to allow my living to open me,
to make me less afraid,
more accessible;
to loosen my heart
until it becomes a wing,
a torch, a promise.
I choose to risk my significance,
to live so that which came to me as seed
goes to the next as blossom,
and that which came to me as blossom,
goes on as fruit.

-Dawn Markova-

I love that poem

You can't fly without leaving the ground

I want a holiday, before I start having to labour in the fields for 5 hours a day, but beyond that it's still unclear, partially visible through the mist but indistinct as yet. Like Dorian and Bridget, I'm going one step at a time. Because I'm digging out my foundations of what I've always felt as solid ground for so many years I have to readjust to a new surface. But I'm looking forward to it, because it's inevitable and there's no point to me in not embracing the inevitable.

And thanks Andy for that link - I'll read it in a minute. Yea, I love Celtic design work, its organic nature has always appealed to me.

I reckon we should get together and have a picnic or something somewhere beautiful and chew the fat on the spiritual/opening/risking future that PO presents us with. I think we could have a wonderful time. Because PO has just given me the boot up the arse - this has all been bubbling away inside for a long time...

Thank you all again for opening yourselves up this this - it's rare.

[peaky]

Andy - hello

But there seems little point in punctiliously recycling our wine bottles and waste paper, while as a society and as individuals we continue to burn fossil fuels with impunity.

I agree with most of that article but not that! If it's true then nobodyu would recycle at all until everything else was in place as well. The order is: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. But if I get to point 3 then that's what I need to do, not just say "Well no one else cares so why bother!"

However, the rest makes much sense. My life changed profoundly in 1985 when a combination of 'man-made' and natural streams combined in my life and I bless that moment every day. But, Witchcraft (and to that matter, other nature based religions) see the sacred in all things - the stones, the earth, all living creatures (except mosquitos ) and of course, us. We are divine too - it's not just out there somewhere. Even Carl Sagan said "We are all starfolk", recognising that each one of us is connected to and inextricably intertwined with all creation. Any spiritual path should be one which attempts to clarify, honour and enhance that connection in my view. The entire universe is a magical place.

[RevdTess]

Hey, I used to be like that. Until the kids arrived. Dont know if you have kids, but for me they managed to screw up my priorities rather completely. In particular, the feeling of responsibility for the growing life made things look quite different.

Yeah I've seen that happen to a lot of people, and one friend specifically told me that I should resolve my 'need' by having kids. I think that's a perfectly acceptable path if you find your motivations transformed in that way. In the story I wrote about, Dorian and Bridget actually had a son Jack while living in their freezing log cabin, but while stability is now important to them, it didnt strip away the need in them to live where they do. They certainly didn't hotfoot it back to Cornwall! http://www.dorianamos.com

As for me, I think my path and purpose lie elsewhere. I am more priestess than parent.

[RevdTess]

Because PO has just given me the boot up the arse - this has all been bubbling away inside for a long time...

Yes, PO is only the catalyst, and it works for me as a catalyst because it is so all-encompassing. It's not just another cause, something to be fixed so that life can continue as-is, it's a harbinger of something entirely new, which also happens to be entirely ancient.

[RevdTess]

Tess, you write so beautifully and expressively. Perhaps there's a path in writing for you?

I hope so. I really enjoy expressing myself in the written word.

My escape plan, such as it is; sell my house. Rent. Leave my job. Take 6 months out to clear my head of all the junk that's swirling around in there. I find that when I get rid of stuff that's just hanging around at home - old books I'll never reread, clothes I won't wear again - I feel better. I've got a pile in the corner upstairs now and I think I'll add a sofa, chest of drawers and so on to it. I want just a few things, ideally beautiful and personal things around me because I feel lighter and more nimble that way. I need to do the same to my head. I've had years of 'a salary at the end of the month', 'bricks & mortar' and a kind of timidity in following my real desires, in some areas anyway, for some time.

I know all those feelings very well. My reaction is not to sell the house but try to pay it off asap - I'd feel happier with a source of income from rental so I could go travelling and 'clear my head'. I also take great pleasure in minimising the amount of junk lying around, but admittedly over recent months I've started to collect stuff again. I think owning a house (and therefore not having to move every 6-12 months) does this to me.

The timidity I identify with very strongly. No-one would think of me as a timid person, but I am scared of following my dreams in case they turn out to be not my dreams after all, and I get trapped in a nightmare. This timidity is weakening though, as I realise that the worst of my nightmares is still a far brighter vista than staying where I am.

I have a poem that I found shortly after my last partner died which I've had in my kitchen for some time and it speaks of this future that I need very much:

Yes.

But I'm looking forward to it, because it's inevitable and there's no point to me in not embracing the inevitable.

Yes. It's inevitable for me too, unless I die before I try.

I reckon we should get together and have a picnic or something somewhere beautiful and chew the fat on the spiritual/opening/risking future that PO presents us with. I think we could have a wonderful time. Because PO has just given me the boot up the arse - this has all been bubbling away inside for a long time...

That would be fantastic! Tis getting colder though. Maybe arrange a weekend day out walking in the new forest or something? Maybe we have some plantlife experts on powerswitch who could lead a guided walk?

[Bandidoz]

Try Exbury Gardens.

[isenhand]

Does anybody know that the Mayans were aware of the phases of Venus (like the moon)? We need binoculars or a telescope to see this with our own eyes. How did they know about it? Is anybody aware that the Mayans and before them the Olmecs, developed a calendar that is more accurate than our Gregorian Calendar? It is based upon the Sun, the Moon and Venus.

Yes

On this day, the Sun is at the exact galactic centre of the Milky Way. This cannot be a coincidence!

I think that needs some explanation, the way it reads sounds gibberish. I guess you mean that is appears to line up with the center of the galaxy from our point of view?

And yes it can be coincident. The universe is a complex dynamic system. Each part of it interacts with a local part of the system. No part has a full knowledge of the whole. One of the characteristics of such a system is an emergent of orderly patterns. The universe is full of such self-organising emergent order, from atoms into chemicals, to life on earth, to ant hills and bee hives, to human intelligence, to large organisations of stars into galaxies and galaxies into clusters and super cluster. No intelligence, no design. We have a brain that is especially adapt at seeing such order but it is still coincident and that is just the way nature works.

The Mayan calendar is something that gets picked up in New Age stuff and then its part of the spirituality that I would associate with religion. The it becomes part of the spirituality that I dislike.