Do they know?

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 11 Oct 2007, 14:04

Remember Vortex, they are answerable to you. Go to the meetings. Catch them out. Inspect the accounts.

bloody boring mind you.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 11 Oct 2007, 14:37

Andy Hunt wrote:
Vortex wrote:
It may be that PO instigates a kind of automatic devolution of power to local Councils from central Government.
Oh please not.

Local government is more corrupt, less transparent and generally scummier than central government.

They look it don't they, but I think they just get caught more often. After all most are amateurs, not professionals like in HMG Central!

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 11 Oct 2007, 15:25

when the inevitable collapse of the pollution-based economy, the oil-based economy hits, the people who are able to jump off of that ship and onto whatever ship comes next, will not be the poorest people and the people of color. They will be the rich, Northern, white elite. The question is, are we insisting that they build a big ark for everybody to jump on, or will it just be a little, slim life raft for themselves? That?s the question, and we know, the Pentagon knows, that the oil economy will come to an end.

That's the worrying bit isn't it? Anyone here rich and powerful enough to gain protection from TPTB? Not me. Damn it.... They'll probably go set up a super state somewhere with all the remaining oil in their control and damn the rest of us. I mean we're needing to get rid of 6-7 billion or so right??? What's the best way to do it? Business as usual until GW or famine or some kind of disease kicks in. Then simply buy your peice of where ever looks survivable.

21st_century_caveman · Post by **21st_century_caveman** » 11 Oct 2007, 17:15

You would think they would all be running away to New Zealand or Russia or something.

I don't think they can get away with just a small life raft for themselves, they would surely be overrun by the masses of non-elite people.
They would be better off trying to sort out the mess they have created and make a life raft for everyone, or else nobody survives, not even them.
The problem is not that they don't know what the solutions are, the solutions are fairly obvious, especially to people on sites like this one, the problem is that they are not really in control of the system even though they like to think that they are, therefore they cannot make the necessary changes.
That is why i think something like Simultaneous Policy is likely, the elites will have to take the lesser of two evils, let the whole system collapse into chaos or choose to regulate it more tightly.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 11 Oct 2007, 19:13

If it does all fall to pieces I imagine there will be fall guys like top oil people or people in politics I wouldnt be suprised to see show trials .

I think people like matt simons and colin campbell will be thought of as heros because theyve tried to avert trouble, the same will apply to people setting up groups in parliment ,at the moment people think their nuts but when it strikes it will be like churchill warning of the nazi menace .

If you imagine the world suddenly getting into a situation where we have hundreds of millions of people starving because of something like peak oil show trials are not that far fetched .

I know companys like haliburton have moved to the middle east and people like dick cheney are buying houses there , but I dont think that will be as good for their personal safety as speaking out now .

I could see people like cheney hunted down like war criminals and forget whether what their doing is illegal now or not, if you get enough people mad at you they can make any laws they like to get you .

What the nazis did was not illegal before nuremburg didnt stop them being hung did it

redlantern · Post by **redlantern** » 11 Oct 2007, 20:25

21st_century_caveman wrote:You would think they would all be running away to New Zealand or Russia or something.

Queen Mary and a couple of other superliners in the middle of a Carrier battlegroup. At 10% occupancy those things could reprovision from any non-nuclear state via a small expeditionary force, then stand offshore until the worst of the dieoff is over. They will also be immune to sea level rise.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 11 Oct 2007, 20:29

Andy Hunt wrote:And your evidence is . . . ?

The leader of our council ended up in jail. Something to do with omitting to mention that he owned the land over which he granted permission for a bypass.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 11 Oct 2007, 20:42

biffvernon wrote:
Andy Hunt wrote:And your evidence is . . . ?
The leader of our council ended up in jail. Something to do with omitting to mention that he owned the land over which he granted permission for a bypass.

Oops . . .

Well - that's what jail's there for, I suppose!

Smithy · Post by **Smithy** » 11 Oct 2007, 21:13

21st_century_caveman wrote:the problem is that they are not really in control of the system even though they like to think that they are, therefore they cannot make the necessary changes.

That says it all for me

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 11 Oct 2007, 22:12

redlantern wrote:
21st_century_caveman wrote:You would think they would all be running away to New Zealand or Russia or something.
Queen Mary and a couple of other superliners in the middle of a Carrier battlegroup. At 10% occupancy those things could reprovision from any non-nuclear state via a small expeditionary force, then stand offshore until the worst of the dieoff is over. They will also be immune to sea level rise.

Nothing that couldn't be fixed using a good swimmer and a limpet-mine

or even a ballistic (I'd be pretty ballistic...)

As for running away to Russia well most people there are decent enough but even now there's a sizeable minority who are so desperate they just nick anything that isn't nailed down.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 12 Oct 2007, 04:16

Wouldn't go to Russia until someone bumps off Stali... sorry Putin. The communists haven't gone away in Russia, they've just changed their spots. At the moment they don't need gulags because the great unwashed think the are free. The jails are big enough for the "criminals" who don't like the regime. Those they don't just bump off, anyway.

What we need is for all you POers to get out there and become Transition Towners. Change things from the bottom up. Our MP is interested and our ex MP is trying to get in on the act as well. If we get enough people and their MPs interested they might be able to do something through Parliament.

Totnes are doing things with about 10% of the electorate, so why can't others. They are getting Energy Descent Plans adopted by local councils because 10% of the electorate is a sizable proportion of the voting public and councillors will listen very carefully to a pressure group that size. Once local councils start adopting EDPs, the MPs will start getting in on the act as well.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 12 Oct 2007, 09:37

kenneal wrote:What we need is for all you POers to get out there and become Transition Towners.

Am working on it as we write . . .

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 12 Oct 2007, 10:10

Smithy wrote:
21st_century_caveman wrote:the problem is that they are not really in control of the system even though they like to think that they are, therefore they cannot make the necessary changes.
That says it all for me

Yes, that is an excellent point caveman, the system is outside anybody's control now. It has reached critical mass quite a long time ago and there is no way we can stop it! Much too late in the day really

...... especially having read ex-president Carter's great televised speech - how visionary he was.