People say that I am hard core about some of this stuff but I know because I have been to Davos, and I?ve sat with Bill Clinton and I?ve sat with Bill Gates and I?ve sat with Tony Blair and I?ve sat with Nancy Pelosi. I?ve sat with all these people who we think are in charge, and they don?t know what to do. Take that in: they don?t know what to do! You think you?re scared? You think you?re terrified? They have the Pentagon?s intelligence, they have every major corporation?s input; Shell Oil that has done this survey and study around the peak oil problem. You think we?ve got to get on the Internet and say, ?Peak oil!? because the system doesn?t know about it? They know, and they don?t know what to do. And they are terrified that if they do anything they?ll lose their positions. So they keep juggling chickens and chainsaws and hope it works out just like most of us everyday at work. That?s real, that?s real.
when the inevitable collapse of the pollution-based economy, the oil-based economy hits, the people who are able to jump off of that ship and onto whatever ship comes next, will not be the poorest people and the people of color. They will be the rich, Northern, white elite. The question is, are we insisting that they build a big ark for everybody to jump on, or will it just be a little, slim life raft for themselves? That?s the question, and we know, the Pentagon knows, that the oil economy will come to an end.
DR: What is the urgency for positive change?
VJ: Every minute or year that we delay putting the majority of our resources and the majority of our resources behind the solution, you don?t just lose that minute or that day, because every minute of the day you?re not there you?re also continuing to put your weight and your energy on the problem. You can only either accelerate the problem or accelerate the solution. At this point, the urgency is severe. Systems do hit tipping points of breakdown. I?m not the best person to speak about that, but I?ve read and been informed that there can be cascade effects where by one way of looking at things you?ve got fifty years or a hundred years, when in fact, when you actually work out the model, you really have ten years or fifteen years, because things do hit tipping points when you have cascade effects. So, for once, Chicken Little is right.
Of course the powers that be (TPTB) know. Whether all MPs really know, I would say is pretty unlikely. But the TPTB definately know because it is part of running a country to know these things. I would say that goes for all countries.
The bit that scares me, is
"I?ve sat with all these people who we think are in charge, and they don?t know what to do. Take that in: they don?t know what to do! You think you?re scared? You think you?re terrified? They have the Pentagon?s intelligence, they have every major corporation?s input; Shell Oil that has done this survey and study around the peak oil problem. You think we?ve got to get on the Internet and say, ?Peak oil!? because the system doesn?t know about it? They know, and they don?t know what to do."
I can see your point Snow but there's a bit of a difference between NOT knowing what to do (and therefore doing nothing, or very little) and DELIBERATELY initiating action in the wrong direction (for example Mr Darling's massive new roadbuilding budget, when the moolah could have been used for something more future-proof, popular or even for debt payments).
There's also the possibility of Preparation By Stealth: in Climate Change all governments have the perfect cover for PO preparations without having to panic the populace (most of whom don't think CC is much of a problem but sort of go along with HMG's programme about it). It could be doing a LOT MORE in this direction, as anyone in my industry or in the Farming community could tell you.
My general position is that TPTB know the score. However there are some inconsistencies. Why for example is the UK pushing so hard for aviation expansion instead of rail expansion? Building a European style electrified rail network would hardly be a vote loser!
Maybe it's not so black and white, knowing and not-knowing. TPTB may kind of know but still retain a faith that we have enough time for markets and industries to come up with technical fixes.
We had some guests from Strasbourg, on the French - German border. They said you can see the border because on one side only everyone is putting up solar panels.
What is it that has made the German government take a different view from the French?
Everyone knows that bike lanes are a Good Thing but why is this translated into a comprehensive system of integrated hardware on the streets of Amsterdam while in London you get a line painted on the tarmac for fifty yards and then it stops?
It is clear that government could do very much more, but in a democracy whose fault is the in-action? TPTB or the 90% of contributers to petrolprice.com?
clv101 wrote:My general position is that TPTB know the score. However there are some inconsistencies. Why for example is the UK pushing so hard for aviation expansion instead of rail expansion? Building a European style electrified rail network would hardly be a vote loser!
Maybe it's a deliberate ploy to avoid the blame.
If they look like they might have known in advance, by making some preparations, then they will be accused of having kept it to themselves.
On the other hand, if they behave completely irresponsibly, as though they have no idea what is about to happen, lining the pockets of their rich friends in the process, then when it all goes t!ts up they will be able to say they were taken completely by surprise - and it will look like it too.
You may be right, Andy, but I'm not sure that we get anywhere by taking the cynical appoach. It might be better to pretend that politicians are honest folk with the best interests of their citizens at heart. Then the logical thing to do is to enable them to do the right thing by assuring them of our votes if and when they do the right thing.
biffvernon wrote:You may be right, Andy, but I'm not sure that we get anywhere by taking the cynical appoach. It might be better to pretend that politicians are honest folk with the best interests of their citizens at heart. Then the logical thing to do is to enable them to do the right thing by assuring them of our votes if and when they do the right thing.
You're right of course, my post was half-joking really. It would be the most ridiculous bluff in history.
It may be that PO instigates a kind of automatic devolution of power to local Councils from central Government.
Tonight I want to have an unpleasant talk with you about a problem unprecedented in our history. With the exception of preventing war, this is the greatest challenge our country will face during our lifetimes. The energy crisis has not yet overwhelmed us, but it will if we do not act quickly.
It is a problem we will not solve in the next few years, and it is likely to get progressively worse through the rest of this century.
We must not be selfish or timid if we hope to have a decent world for our children and grandchildren.
We simply must balance our demand for energy with our rapidly shrinking resources. By acting now, we can control our future instead of letting the future control us.
Two days from now, I will present my energy proposals to the Congress. Its members will be my partners and they have already given me a great deal of valuable advice. Many of these proposals will be unpopular. Some will cause you to put up with inconveniences and to make sacrifices.
The most important thing about these proposals is that the alternative may be a national catastrophe. Further delay can affect our strength and our power as a nation.
Our decision about energy will test the character of the American people and the ability of the President and the Congress to govern. This difficult effort will be the "moral equivalent of war" -- except that we will be uniting our efforts to build and not destroy.
I know that some of you may doubt that we face real energy shortages. The 1973 gasoline lines are gone, and our homes are warm again. But our energy problem is worse tonight than it was in 1973 or a few weeks ago in the dead of winter. It is worse because more waste has occurred, and more time has passed by without our planning for the future. And it will get worse every day until we act.
The oil and natural gas we rely on for 75 percent of our energy are running out. In spite of increased effort, domestic production has been dropping...........................(continues)
It may be that PO instigates a kind of automatic devolution of power to local Councils from central Government.
Oh please not.
Local government is more corrupt, less transparent and generally scummier than central government.
"OK, that's agreed then. You'll support my planning application to stick some houses on that Green Belt field I bought, and I'll back your Green Technology Information Exchange visit to Las Vegas ... familes included of course. Oh, don't forget that we all need to vote for that 7% Council tax increase ... we'll need it to cover our Liasion Trips to the Chinese Olympics."
It may be that PO instigates a kind of automatic devolution of power to local Councils from central Government.
Oh please not.
Local government is more corrupt, less transparent and generally scummier than central government.
And your evidence is . . . ?
Not that I'm saying it doesn't go on (I'm personally aware of at least one dodgy thing going on with my own local Council), but local government is a lot more immediately accessible to 'the people' in terms of physical proximity. They have a bit more of an incentive to get it right.
And when 'relocalisation' is the policy key word of the century, I think it's a distinct possibility.
