2p rise in fuel duty today

Bedrock Barney · Post by **Bedrock Barney** » 02 Oct 2007, 19:01

From today's Independent (columnist Thomas Sutcliffe)

The news that the price of petrol might climb above ?1 a litre was greeted with predictable cries of pain from motoring organisations. The AA's spokesman said "this increase is going to hurt a lot of people", and his warning was echoed by the lady from the RAC who feared that it "is going to hit motorists hard".

Words like "agony" and "misery" were used in the tabloids. An image formed of forecourts across the land, filled with shrieking drivers until, after a few seconds thought, it vanished, leaving only a faint smell of diesel behind it. A price rise isn't "agony" ? it's a minor inconvenience ? and there are plenty of grounds for arguing that it isn't nearly inconvenient enough. Motorists must be one of the most self-pitying and unreflective tribes around ? short-sighted self-interest on slowly turning wheels.

We're long overdue for a bit of hurting, frankly ? but the power of the motoring lobby will no doubt ensure that any real hardship is felt by someone else at a much later date.

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 02 Oct 2007, 19:09

Anyone tried having this conversation in a dodgy Glasgow council estate pub?

I can be contacted in the casualty ward at Glasgow General.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 02 Oct 2007, 19:19

Anyone tried having this conversation in a dodgy Glasgow council estate pub?

You've already been chucked out once for spouting that Peak Oil rubbish.
And, no, the lads inside WON'T give you your clothes back.
Now get lost before you get a good kicking.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 02 Oct 2007, 20:18

The more I think about it, the more the comments and general attitudes on that "petrol price" web site worry me ...

A group of this sort coming to your village post-Peak could be difficult ... they would "demand their rights" ... in a very nice but scary irrational sort of way ...

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 02 Oct 2007, 22:23

A thread on the RAC forum here - not commented yet:

http://forum.rac.co.uk/showthread.php?t=72

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 02 Oct 2007, 22:35

Vortex wrote:The more I think about it, the more the comments and general attitudes on that "petrol price" web site worry me ...

A group of this sort coming to your village post-Peak could be difficult ... they would "demand their rights" ... in a very nice but scary irrational sort of way ...

Indeed! This should be a strong reminder to keep your preparations secret. Completely secret. And practice playing poor. And sick. Be ready to prepare a couple of mock graves in your front yard. "*Cough, cough, spit* - it's only me left here now - *cough, spit* - can you spare some flour? Please? I have not eaten anything the last week and this cough just get wor... *cough-vomit*"

Post by **clv101** » 03 Oct 2007, 09:27

Here's how the break down looks at the moment:

Original article here: A Tuppence Extra?

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 03 Oct 2007, 10:18

That's outrageous how can we survive my kids have consumption its all the filthy dirty Governments fault labour won't get my vote I'm an OAP how can I get around the tories are just as bad I hate Gordon Brown its cheaper everywhere else Oh God I just can't take it Rip Off Britain it's the greenies fault outrageous these oil companies get away with murder my life is over.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 03 Oct 2007, 12:20

You've already been chucked out once for spouting that Peak Oil rubbish.
And, no, the lads inside WON'T give you your clothes back.
Now get lost before you get a good kicking.

That's never Glesca it's NO RAININ'!

Blue Peter · Post by **Blue Peter** » 03 Oct 2007, 12:46

clv101 wrote:Here's how the break down looks at the moment:

Original article here: A Tuppence Extra?

Chris,

Is VAT charged on the duty? That seems like double taxation which seems a bit rough,

Peter.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 03 Oct 2007, 13:00

Blue Peter wrote:
Is VAT charged on the duty? That seems like double taxation which seems a bit rough,

Peter.

Correct, probably illegal, but in practice a technicallity. It simply cuts the headline 'duty' part of the tax by 17.5% (before adding it back on again as VAT).

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 03 Oct 2007, 14:21

Latest prod of the beehive ...

If you drive 15,000 miles a year ... that's 41 miles per day, for 365 days a year .... at say 35 MPG you will burn 428 gallons (UK) of fuel.

That's around 1950 litres. So the new tax will cost you ?44.85 per year i.e. 87p a week.

Now let's compare that with food price inflation in just September of a stunning 2.7%. Your supermarket basket has probably increased in price by POUNDS a month ... in just one month!

Why not protest about THAT? Oh ... you can't ... it's due to global energy shortages & related high prices, and also droughts etc.

In a few months our food bills will start getting silly so the new 2.3p tax per litre of fuel will seen irrelevant.

We are rapidly entering a resource limited world where oil, natural gas, food, fresh water plus lots of less well known but vital items such as helium are becoming scare and/or more expensive.

In the past a protest against a petrol duty rise might indeed have been worthwhile ... but today I think that maybe we need to simply take this price rise as a warning, and make personal plans for more of the same across the whole economy.

If you can't survive a 2.3p tax rise on fuel today, then you are certainly going to have a bad time tomorrow ...

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 03 Oct 2007, 14:51

I followed up on Sandra's reply to you Vortex;

It's a harsh reality that without oil production, the most that this planet has managed to support is around 1 Billion people. We currently have 6-7 Billion. It's probably true (if not nice to hear) that alot of people really won't be able (literally) to survive the coming energy crisis. Prepare to have your elderly parents living with you again. Families will once again all live in the same house, and you may well have to get used to having one warm room and taking hot water bottles to bed.

If the disabled you know CANNOT survive a 5p increase then you will have to find a different way of helping them survive. Vortex is warning you of geological realities, not defending the government. The point is that the price rises in the future will make this tax blip look like a drop in a bath tub. The point is if you find this increase hard the PLEASE now look at changing your life to become more resilient to future rises.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 03 Oct 2007, 15:36

I hope that at least one of the 7000 "stop the tax" crowd over there will have been persuaded to have a re-think by our posts.

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 03 Oct 2007, 15:53

It's frustrating not knowing how effective this is. I think this approach of a few of us posting on other forums is probably better than if lots of us were doing it, or only one of us. It's also quite interesting, just to give us a reality check. It is a reminder of how large the wall of ignorance or mis-comprehension is, particularly the idea that so many have that they have a right to easy energy and the idea that it's all the government's fault.