What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?
Come on you lot! Wake up! We're at the start of the end of the oil age. At the rate the world uses oil it's not going to take us too long to get back to car use being a luxury. It is a finite resource. Wasting it by burning it should be a crime. Oil has far better uses that making petrol.
The IEA (international energy agency) have warned of a supply crunch in oil by 2012. You can expect your petrol prices to get far more expensive. Very expensive. When you look at the huge amount of energy we get from oil it should already be double or even treble the price.
Taken to it's logical conclusion we are going to have to live SUSTAINABLY. That will not involve the use of a car at all. My advise is start looking for a local job. And one that preferably doesn't depend on oil use.
Jim
For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.
"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
Bandidoz wrote:Last time I bothered with that site, none of my comments seemed to get "published".
My first comment (the text in my earlier post on this thread) didn't get published. I resubmitted it without the links and it was published immediately.
Bandidoz wrote:I wonder what the reaction would be to rationing as an alternative to higher duty?
Probably similar to the one in Iran. I think that, when rationing is brought in, it would be a good moment tactically for the government to come clean with the electorate and explain what the problem is.
Probably similar to the one in Iran. I think that, when rationing is brought in, it would be a good moment tactically for the government to come clean with the electorate and explain what the problem is.
I agree.
Even better, they should co ordinate anyformal centralised rationing system with the other EU states.
It might take the political sting out of it?
BTW, presumably they are still rationing in Iran - there doesnt seem to be many more petrol stations being blown up (unless they are not reported?)
I'm keeping up the pressure on that fuel price site. As are a few other. I recon at least a few on there will end up at least looking up Peak oil. Once the seed is sown so to speak.....
Jim
For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.
"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
Another prod. I don't think they like our contributions.
I would dearly like to see a "direct protest" action to bloody the Government's nose.
However whilst that might save us 2p / litre now it will NOT prevent any coming price increases due to the increasing gap between crude oil supply and demand.
Without being "eco" or "green" or "lefty" I still feel that we all need to prepare for a world with ever more expensive fuel.
If your job or life style relies on petrol and you simply can't survive much in the way of any price increase, then you URGENTLY need to re-plan your future.
Short term, a change from a big petrol car to a small diesel might do the job .. but even that won't help much if fuel becomes VERY expensive ... or even becomes rationed.
Bluntly, if a 2p increase is hurting badly TODAY then you are ALREADY over exposed to fuel prices. You urgently need a "Plan B".
Don't simply "hope for the best" ... petrol will NEVER get cheaper .. it can ONLY increase in price.
People on this blog have been asked to give their opinion on whether they support an increase in duty or not please have the courtesy to let them do that, Greg and Co.
Grasping Gordon needs this money to pay for Tony Bleh's war in Iraq and for maintaining armed forces that mean we can keep a seat on the UN Security Council despite the small size of our country. It's used to boost their egos. Still elections are coming.
Petrol is not going to come down in price though. It's more likely to go up. It's not the government's fault, nor the oil companies'. It's because the world's oil production is about to start falling. The amount of oil discovered each year has been falling since the 1960s and we have been using more oil than we've been discovering since the 1980s.
That situation is about to catch up with us and, in a world with growing demand, we will soon have declining production, if we haven't already got there. It's called Peak Oil and is a geological problem we can't do anything about. No amount of extra drilling will do anything to help. Just as the US had Peak Oil in 1970 and the North Sea had Peak Oil in the 1990s, the world will have Peak Oil in the next few years. This will cause the price of oil to rocket, making 83$ per barrel look cheap. $300 per barrel is being talked about so you are looking at petrol at well over ?1/ltr BEFORE TAX.
Transferring to biofuels won't make any difference because we haven't got enough land to grow fuel and eat as well. The US is now producing about 3% of it's road fuel requirement from ethanol and has doubled the world grain price and halved the grain reserve. Biofuels won't work.
So get used to high prices and find a way of not using your cars while you can still afford it. Get a job locally or get a bike. Also, make sure the government uses the extra revenues it is getting now to invest in public transport because in a few years time it won't have the money or time to change things.
Peak Oil is here.
I'm afraid it's like arguing with Dr Doom over Global Warming though. They've all got their heads in the sand and don't want to hear. Still, we've had our go at educating them. Hopefully at least one of them will take notice.
I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but oil and petrol prices are only going to go in one direction from now on. Up.
See, there's this little known and little publicised geological problem called "peak oil", it's known in the oil industry as "peak production", and by best estimates has already happened (2005) or is very close to happening (2010-2015). So even if the government didn't raise the fuel duty from now until the End of Time, the price at the pump will continue to rise.
As for the comments about Tesco giving a discount once you've spent ?50 on shopping, have you considered that they may well be actually making a loss with that discount which they offset by getting you to spend ?50 in the shop?
Without wishing to cause any offence, maybe all the folks complaining about the rise in duty should take the time to do a little research into what's going on in the real world of oil supply/demand and production.
They are all complaining how their N mile commutes are becoming expensive.
I would be surprised if even ONE of them understands what Peak Oil means - despite our prompting.
I suppose if you know (or believe) that you are stuck in a certain job and a certain house then you won't easily accept any input which conflicts with your world view.
I now realise why the Govt simply CANNOT highlight Peak Oil ... it would shatter many people's assumptions about their jobs / careers / futures.
Imagine the short sighted bleating on that blog multiplied by 1 million people and maybe 50 times more forcibly expressed.
Vortex wrote:That blog makes me realise how situations like the (fictional) "Lord Of The Flies" can happen.
If apparently decent people can get so annoyed, lord alone knows how the gold chain encrusted yobbo in the street will react ...
Indeed. The comments there are from a very specific section of society - the section who post comments on web sites. Generally I'd say this section is significantly more "decent" than average. However this observation needs to be tempered with the tendency for "decent" people to become keyboard warriors from the anonymous safety of their studies.
Anyone tried having this conversation in a dodgy Glasgow council estate pub?
