Quote:
Medical staff got the fuel
Medical staff ...and their boyfriends ... got the fuel. Saw it happening ...
Harsh, but fair
Are we still in denial?
Moderator: Peak Moderation
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emordnilap
- Posts: 14815
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
Of course, so long as the horses are loved and cared for and are happy and not overworked or discarded etc etc etc. You know what I mean.syberberg wrote:@emordnilap: Can we at least keep the horse-drawn machines? I can happily lose the infernal combustion engines.
I'd like to think we're all pretty much aware of that...give us a bit of credit! (Slightly) badly worded on my part, that's all.skeptik wrote:Which should, effectively, be in about 150 years time. 'no oil' isnt quite the name of the game.emordnilap wrote: I agree, Sunny Jim, bring on 'no oil' as fast as you like.
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mikepepler
- Site Admin
- Posts: 3096
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Rye, UK
- Contact:
I voted "not in denial". We've been aware for three and a half years, and have changed jobs, changed church, moved house, bought a wood, and completely changed the way we view community, economy, food, etc. Every day dozens of things come up and I think "I wonder how this will work post-peak?"
Having said all that, there are many things we do that are "carrying on as normal". The point is that we are aware we may have to give them up at very short notice, so are (somewhat) mentally prepared for the event. Exactly how well prepared we won't know till decision time comes for these things.
Having said all that, there are many things we do that are "carrying on as normal". The point is that we are aware we may have to give them up at very short notice, so are (somewhat) mentally prepared for the event. Exactly how well prepared we won't know till decision time comes for these things.
I voted that I agree that I am not fully mentally prepared. I think only a minority of people (who have made massive changes to their lives) are at the point of full mental preparation.
Although I have been aware of PO for more than 2.5 years now, I still try to enjoy the oil-age while it lasts, I am not one that wants a return to the old ways before industrialisation. I like the Internet, my mobile phone and my laptop. I like driving a decent car, albeit a fuel efficient one. I still go on holidays to the sun most years, although I try to limit my flying within the UK and of course agree with aviation reduction.
Time will come soon when I can't do those things and I am trying to prepare (me and my family and friends) within the boundaries I can cope with. Those boundaries are wider than some and narrower than others - but hey - they are where they are for me.
Mental preparation is a large part of PO in my opinion and most of us on here are well ahead of the pack and will cope much better when things get difficult and the SHTF.
Although I have been aware of PO for more than 2.5 years now, I still try to enjoy the oil-age while it lasts, I am not one that wants a return to the old ways before industrialisation. I like the Internet, my mobile phone and my laptop. I like driving a decent car, albeit a fuel efficient one. I still go on holidays to the sun most years, although I try to limit my flying within the UK and of course agree with aviation reduction.
Time will come soon when I can't do those things and I am trying to prepare (me and my family and friends) within the boundaries I can cope with. Those boundaries are wider than some and narrower than others - but hey - they are where they are for me.
Mental preparation is a large part of PO in my opinion and most of us on here are well ahead of the pack and will cope much better when things get difficult and the SHTF.
Real money is gold and silver
I voted agree, I haven't fully come to terms with the implications. I'm pleased for those on this forum who have, I'd like to benefit from the mental stability that you must feel.
Interesting that some of us are still debating what it will be like post peak as I am of the view that we are there already.
Some great points of view on this thread. I think I'm with snow hope in that alot of my anxiety comes deep down from the fact that I have actually rather enjoyed the easy life and although I have never aspired to being filthy rich I am definately not looking forward to being cringingly poor and suffering all the complications, deprivations and confiscation of privilage that being a debtor brings.
Interesting that some of us are still debating what it will be like post peak as I am of the view that we are there already.
Some great points of view on this thread. I think I'm with snow hope in that alot of my anxiety comes deep down from the fact that I have actually rather enjoyed the easy life and although I have never aspired to being filthy rich I am definately not looking forward to being cringingly poor and suffering all the complications, deprivations and confiscation of privilage that being a debtor brings.
Energy in - rubbish out
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bobthebaker
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 09 Jul 2007, 19:28
- Location: S E London
I have made most of the mental adjustments (I least that's what I like to think!). THere is now a clear road ahead of me and I know what needs to be done if not exactly when but at least the framework is in place.
With more than a passing nod to Hari Seldon, I believe there wil be 4 crisis:-
1) The financial crisis - this is already upon us and will play out over the next few years. To survive this you must be debt free or have relatively small debts.
2) The energy crisis - not much to be said about this again we on the cusp and will be a constant backdrop to any personal/societal decisions from now on.
3) The food crisis - bought on by 2), our ever increasing population and the competition for resources from China/India etc
4) The changing climate crisis - something perhaps we still only dutifully tug our forelocks too at the moment but over the long term will need to be taken into account.
I keeping this short and rather vague because I might post in the near future a much longer "treatise" on how I see the future panning out(depending on anyone being interested or am I on an ego trip?).
Saying that, it's been on my mind recently that we need to collectively sit down and started to ponder what the future will bring from a holistic perspective not just PO. It's all very well preaching PO to the unconverted but it is now seeping into the mainstream. Whilst we can all give ourselves a pat on the back for being in the vanguard we can't afford to stand still otherwise we'll end up doing exactly as my signature says!
With more than a passing nod to Hari Seldon, I believe there wil be 4 crisis:-
1) The financial crisis - this is already upon us and will play out over the next few years. To survive this you must be debt free or have relatively small debts.
2) The energy crisis - not much to be said about this again we on the cusp and will be a constant backdrop to any personal/societal decisions from now on.
3) The food crisis - bought on by 2), our ever increasing population and the competition for resources from China/India etc
4) The changing climate crisis - something perhaps we still only dutifully tug our forelocks too at the moment but over the long term will need to be taken into account.
I keeping this short and rather vague because I might post in the near future a much longer "treatise" on how I see the future panning out(depending on anyone being interested or am I on an ego trip?).
Saying that, it's been on my mind recently that we need to collectively sit down and started to ponder what the future will bring from a holistic perspective not just PO. It's all very well preaching PO to the unconverted but it is now seeping into the mainstream. Whilst we can all give ourselves a pat on the back for being in the vanguard we can't afford to stand still otherwise we'll end up doing exactly as my signature says!
Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him. - Dwight D Eisenhower
Well I would be interested to hear what you think, at any rate. Psychohistory is always a fascinating subject.bobthebaker wrote:I keeping this short and rather vague because I might post in the near future a much longer "treatise" on how I see the future panning out(depending on anyone being interested or am I on an ego trip?).
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
Bobthebaker Wrote;
1)?? The financial crisis - this is already upon us and will play out over the next few years. To survive this you must be debt free or have relatively small debts??
You use quite loaded words like ?survive? people will go on and a lot will prosper, it really does not matter if you have debts you can simply write them off or pass them on. The debt situation that the country is in, is a new epoch, novel remedies will be found. Anarchy will not benefit anyone and that includes very wealthy people, bankers or butchers. We are a small crowded island people will have to live and work somewhere. The situation of ,
??You owe 100k and you cannot pay it back, you must die??
This just is not going to happen.
Bobthebaker Wrote;
2) ??The energy crisis - not much to be said about this again we on the cusp and will be a constant backdrop to any personal/societal decisions from now on??
Always has done, so what is new?
When I was two we moved house, the reason? It had running water and electricity, not a well and paraffin heaters.
Bobthebaker Wrote;
3)?? The food crisis - bought on by 2), our ever increasing population and the competition for resources from China/India etc??
Sorry I see a resurgence of local food on its way. Personally I will not be sorry to see the massed produced rubbish gone
Bobthebaker Wrote;
4) ??The changing climate crisis - something perhaps we still only dutifully tug our forelocks too at the moment but over the long term will need to be taken into account??
Climate change has nothing to do with you or I. What will happen will happen, whether you or I like it or not.
1)?? The financial crisis - this is already upon us and will play out over the next few years. To survive this you must be debt free or have relatively small debts??
You use quite loaded words like ?survive? people will go on and a lot will prosper, it really does not matter if you have debts you can simply write them off or pass them on. The debt situation that the country is in, is a new epoch, novel remedies will be found. Anarchy will not benefit anyone and that includes very wealthy people, bankers or butchers. We are a small crowded island people will have to live and work somewhere. The situation of ,
??You owe 100k and you cannot pay it back, you must die??
This just is not going to happen.
Bobthebaker Wrote;
2) ??The energy crisis - not much to be said about this again we on the cusp and will be a constant backdrop to any personal/societal decisions from now on??
Always has done, so what is new?
When I was two we moved house, the reason? It had running water and electricity, not a well and paraffin heaters.
Bobthebaker Wrote;
3)?? The food crisis - bought on by 2), our ever increasing population and the competition for resources from China/India etc??
Sorry I see a resurgence of local food on its way. Personally I will not be sorry to see the massed produced rubbish gone
Bobthebaker Wrote;
4) ??The changing climate crisis - something perhaps we still only dutifully tug our forelocks too at the moment but over the long term will need to be taken into account??
Climate change has nothing to do with you or I. What will happen will happen, whether you or I like it or not.
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RenewableCandy
- Posts: 12777
- Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
- Location: York
I had to admit I hadn't fully accepted the implications, because it's such a complicated matter that I can't think all in one go what all those implications are.
However PO ideas must have sunk in quite some way because:
when I see people having their gardens paved over, I think they must be mad
when I see derelict land, I find myself thinking "someone could plant apple trees/hazels/sorrel on that..."
when our council boasted that soon they'd have gas combi-boilers in all their houses, I wrote in to ask what would happen to all those 'vulnerable people' during power cuts and/or when the gas got too pricy (or Mr Putin needs it to prevent another revolution)?
I love to repair old stuff and give it a new lease of life (hang on I've been doing that forever, long before I'd heard of PO...)
I joke with my kids about things like 'we had so much cheap oil we used to burn it up, just to drive around for entertainment...'
I am beginning to draw up a list of 'useful' Christmas presents for people!
However PO ideas must have sunk in quite some way because:
when I see people having their gardens paved over, I think they must be mad
when I see derelict land, I find myself thinking "someone could plant apple trees/hazels/sorrel on that..."
when our council boasted that soon they'd have gas combi-boilers in all their houses, I wrote in to ask what would happen to all those 'vulnerable people' during power cuts and/or when the gas got too pricy (or Mr Putin needs it to prevent another revolution)?
I love to repair old stuff and give it a new lease of life (hang on I've been doing that forever, long before I'd heard of PO...)
I joke with my kids about things like 'we had so much cheap oil we used to burn it up, just to drive around for entertainment...'
I am beginning to draw up a list of 'useful' Christmas presents for people!
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21st_century_caveman
- Posts: 208
- Joined: 23 May 2007, 20:43
- Location: Still on this feckin island
I voted for "Don't Know", or would have done if that option was available.
Whilst i have accepted the reality of PO and its implications and the reality
of all the other problems we're facing that make the current way of life unsustainable, i do still have doubts sometimes and i think that comes from the total uncertainty of it.
Yes, i can see the whole thing playing out in slow motion right before my eyes yet a small part of me still thinks "theres nothing to worry about, its not real", probably because i've yet to experience any effects directly, i haven't been forced to do anything yet.
Then theres preparations, here i'm completely stuck, and i think the reason (one of them at least) is that there is no "We" only me.
It seems that most of the people here who are more advanced in their preparations are the poeple who are a "We" who can support each other (synergy, greater than the sum of the parts etc), being in a relationship removes some of the uncertainty because you are at least facing the future with someone you love, that will make a huge difference when the going gets tough.
Whilst i have accepted the reality of PO and its implications and the reality
of all the other problems we're facing that make the current way of life unsustainable, i do still have doubts sometimes and i think that comes from the total uncertainty of it.
Yes, i can see the whole thing playing out in slow motion right before my eyes yet a small part of me still thinks "theres nothing to worry about, its not real", probably because i've yet to experience any effects directly, i haven't been forced to do anything yet.
Then theres preparations, here i'm completely stuck, and i think the reason (one of them at least) is that there is no "We" only me.
It seems that most of the people here who are more advanced in their preparations are the poeple who are a "We" who can support each other (synergy, greater than the sum of the parts etc), being in a relationship removes some of the uncertainty because you are at least facing the future with someone you love, that will make a huge difference when the going gets tough.
Humans always do the most intelligent thing after every stupid alternative has failed. - R. Buckminster Fuller
If you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss will stare back into you. - Friedrich Nietzche
If you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss will stare back into you. - Friedrich Nietzche
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RenewableCandy
- Posts: 12777
- Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
- Location: York
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21st_century_caveman
- Posts: 208
- Joined: 23 May 2007, 20:43
- Location: Still on this feckin island
Firstly, i was referring to the "we" that people here seem to mean a relationship between two people, me and my OH etc.
Secondly, i'm no longer really part of CAT, i volunteered there over summer and had a good time, lots of nice people there, however its just as cliquey as anywhere else, possibly more so.
Sorry, i'm feeling a bit down today.
Secondly, i'm no longer really part of CAT, i volunteered there over summer and had a good time, lots of nice people there, however its just as cliquey as anywhere else, possibly more so.
Sorry, i'm feeling a bit down today.
Humans always do the most intelligent thing after every stupid alternative has failed. - R. Buckminster Fuller
If you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss will stare back into you. - Friedrich Nietzche
If you stare too long into the abyss, the abyss will stare back into you. - Friedrich Nietzche
Maybe Thatcher was right "There is no such thing as society".You're not alone there, I have frequent moments of despairing at society at large as it seems almost hell-bent on committing suicide.
Perhaps what we are seeing is totally understandable: the aggregate behaviour of millions of self-serving individuals intent on survival .. or a good time.
Can we educate ALL these individuals?
Nope. Coercion of some sort will need to be used.