Considering wood-fuelled cooking

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 15 Aug 2007, 15:33

Tess wrote:I've been working on (pie in the sky) plans for my 'electric-solar-boat'. One of the main issues is how to heat the boat and cook in the winter when solar power output is negligible. The recommended solution by solarboat.co.uk is indeed a rayburn solid fuel stove/water heater.

Having lived with a woodstove last winter though I know that I ended up using coal all the time and the boat was freezing for the first two hours after I got home from work.

The alternatives are a propane-driven (gas) system or a kerosene (oil) system. Both very convenient, efficient and controllable (no more having to keep the fire going continuously) but of course ultimately unsustainable, increasingly expensive and rather defeating the point of having a KW of solar panels on the roof.

Ideally the rayburn would take solid fuel OR propane/kero, and then I could start with convenience and switch to wood as time or expense dictated. However, none of the rayburns will do both. It's either/or.

I have to admit it's a difficult choice. Short term (and let's face it, still very affordable) comfort vs the more righteous but uncomfortable version.

I heard somewhere that solar water heating works quite well even in winter. But is it good enough to transfer enough warmth into a couple of radiators to bridge the gap between getting home and getting the fire on? Anyone got suggestions?

While I'm plugged into the mains of course I can just put electric heaters on timer/thermostat. Job done. But that's cheating. I like being off-grid.

Tess, you need a Louis Ranger from the windy smithy;
http://www.windysmithy.co.uk/html/woodburners.htm

It will get hot MUCH quicker than a rayburn as it is not cast iron, but sheet iron. Should be able to cook and warm the room quickly on it. Saw them at the Big Green Gathering. Very nice looking bits of kit, and cost about ?400. I don't think it would do radiators though

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 15 Aug 2007, 15:36

Tatters,

For super efficient heating and cooking, check out this lot. Burns anything too, from scrub and twigs upto logs etc. It is effect what is termed a 'masonary stove'. Basically you light it once a day, and it burns fast and hot and all the heat is absorbed by the stone through which the exhaust gas is passed. It then radiates the heat over the day and keeps the house warm.

http://www.tigchelkachels.nl/?pag_id=1583&site_id=31

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 15 Aug 2007, 15:44

Personally I'm skint, and have just bought a rayburn for ?147 from ebay. Don't get swayed by the Rayburn catalogue, they haven't changed for years. Not the solid fuel ones anyway. The one I have bought is a Rayburn Royal M/F which is identical to what is now sold as the 216SFW for ?3025. The ones with horizontal handles on the doors are newer than the ones with vertical handles on the doors.

I can't afford the posh tigchelkachels stove. I am however thinking of getting this book, which will alow me to build a stove of similar efficiency for a bargain basement price. Not sure how the household insurance would stand up after a fire mind....

http://www.booksteps.ie/bks/showbk2.php?bookid=7215

For purely cooking outside you can build a stand alone rocket stove, this would suit you Mike and Tracy;

Here's a video of how to build one from scratch;
http://www.aprovecho.org/web-content/me ... rocket.htm

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 15 Aug 2007, 15:51

Tess wrote:
tattercoats wrote:Absolutely. It's funny how, after knowing about PO for two years and considering myself quite clued-up, I still balk, somehow, at this for me, big step, of going 'off-grid' for cooking.

I want to, and I'm scared to.
Even though I was off-grid for heating last winter, the sheer unpleasantness of moving every evening from a woodstove-heated livingroom into a cold bedroom has tempted me back towards convenience. I didn't so much mind the hour or so it took to get significant warmth out of the stove every day, but being unable to sleep due to the cold was just horrible. This year I've bought myself a 240W 'heating tube' that should provide background heat and keep the chill away, but even at a mere 240W, it still requires a mains shoreline to avoid draining the battery in hours. And to think most electric heaters are 2KW or more!

And then even if you're using solid fuel, the chances are it's going to be coal if you want your fire to stay lit for more than a couple of hours while you sleep.

My conclusion is that wood is great for immediate heat and not so arduous for cooking, but highly unsuitable for overnight heating unless you have an automatic wood burning boiler which feeds wood pellets continuously into a furnace. And I'm yet to see any of those that would be suitable for a boat.

So the search for the best flexible and integrated solution continues.

Tess, check out the link to the tigchelkachels I put a couple of posts up. You could basically set a 'burn' off in the morning and the stove would still be kicking heat out in the evening. Would suit you perfectly.... possibly.

tattercoats · Post by **tattercoats** » 15 Aug 2007, 16:24

Hmm, ta for that, Sunnyjim. Looks good, but doesn't have the oven - I think the Chilli Penguin is ahead of the game at the mo, but the family aren't being talked into a Rayburn yet. I think my strategy may well be to get a penguin in the parlour, and when I can make space in the garage, see about picking up a secondhand rayburn (like yours!) for installation when the energy/time equation is more favourable. Ie, when the available grid energy is dodgy enough that going over to wood fired is A Good Idea rather than Extra Work.

I think that's the plan...

Somebody tells me this winter is going to be warm and dry. I think the gods are laughing at me.

Tattercoats (who doesn't care, because she has a spiffy new avatar)

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 15 Aug 2007, 18:15

There was a "How to build a stove from paving slabs" article in this months Permaculture Magazine. Looked good to me.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 15 Aug 2007, 23:17

Don't bet on this winter being warm and dry. They said this summer could be the hottest ever back in April! I expect a somewhat different winter this year from recent ones, based on a somewhat different summer!

Back on topic, I have a Stovax solid fuel stove. I looked in the two pdfs linked above for its efficiency - no mention of Stovax at all...... hmm

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 16 Aug 2007, 00:35

snow hope wrote:Don't bet on this winter being warm and dry. They said this summer could be the hottest ever back in April! I expect a somewhat different winter this year from recent ones, based on a somewhat different summer!

If the jet stream keeps on slipping as it has done all the wet parts of this ?summer? we're in for a very cold winter. I'm chopping logs on Friday when its supposed to be sunny.

Post by **mikepepler** » 16 Aug 2007, 08:10

SunnyJim wrote:For purely cooking outside you can build a stand alone rocket stove, this would suit you Mike and Tracy

Yes, I got the video on making them a while ago... I hope to make one in the next few months some time and leave it up at the wood. Maybe a second one to be stored in the garage ready for emergencies (I don't think I could use one on our patio on a daily basis - the neighbours upstairs might complain!).

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 16 Aug 2007, 08:21

Tess, better insulation on a boat is, of course, difficult because you won't want to lose space. The building material with the highest thermal resistance is 'Spacetherm'. It's a semi-flexible board made of aerogel (which is mostly air held together with amorphous silica) and available from Proctors. Details: http://www.spacetherm.com/

It's more expensive than the standard PUR type building insulation materials but for special applications where space is a premium, could be very useful. Even a 10mm layer stuck to the inside of the hull might make a noticeable difference to comfort.

tattercoats · Post by **tattercoats** » 27 Sep 2007, 16:21

Ballard?

We got our Chilli Penguin! We love our Chilli Penguin! We even sing to our Chilli Penguin! (My dd adores Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. You don't need me to reproduce *what* we sing, now do you?)

It's currently got some spuds in teh oven and a kettle on top. I've found a little oval skillet for frying on it. Right now I'm on a learning curve for keeping it in and getting it to do what I want, and I'm loving the 'company' of it in teh daytime. I know it's not really cold enough for it yet, but I want to learn it before I need it!

The people who make them aer lovely, very accommodating, the chap who fitted in (less than three hours) couldn't have been nicer, no hidden costs, customised handles cos I asked, and - ta daa!

Now I can light the fire mid-morning and do my errands as well. It stays put and doesn't burn the house down. My kids come home to a toasty fine. How cool is that?

Thank you for the recommendation, Ballard!

(And a year or so down the line when we get a woodburning stove in the kitchen I'll know just what I'm taking on!)

T

MisterE · Post by **MisterE** » 27 Sep 2007, 16:32

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I want a chill penguin too! Seriously considering putting one of these in my kitchen under the stairs. They look amazing and will probably use a lot less than my clearview 650 which is a tad overkill untill winter hits. Mind you had it lit this week a few times in the night and I was loving it

Tattercoats I'm well jealous

Ballard · Post by **Ballard** » 27 Sep 2007, 23:16

Tatters,

Great, they are fantastic aren?t they! Welcome to the club.

I've got mine in the dining room, terrific if you have friends around, keep you warm, heats up the food and boils coffee, plus it makes a really cozy feature in the room.

Did you change the handles? They kind of work backwards (and get a little hot)

Did you get the concrete block heat stores? They work really well overnight.

Mr. E, I?ve got my stove in the front room, my ChilliP in the Dining room, and next year the Esse in the kitchen (if I can find the cash). I?ll need to give half the garden over to a wood store at this rate.

tattercoats · Post by **tattercoats** » 28 Sep 2007, 07:52

When I ordered it, I asked about alternative handles because the room it's in - the back half of the through lounge, really, but we call it the parlour and it's the place for music, handicraft, and sitting by oil-lamp - is very old-fashioned in style, and the Penguin looks rather modern and boxy in its original state.

I figured that different handles, with a bit of a curve, would make all the difference, so they mad emine with oval brass handles instead. It works a treat.

I've figured out that if I use a pair of wire coat hangers and a long garden cane, I can have a rail that sits above it on the surround, and I can hang pots and pot holders etc up there - a whole little prairie kitchen in the parlour, in fact! But still removeble when required. I'm reading the Laura Ingalls Wilder books to my youngest and a small cookstove was all *they* had, for years. Daughter is entranced.

Haven't ordered the heat block yet, may well do that.

I know what you mean about the backwards handles, but as I'm lefthanded, it works out alright for me...

T plan to spend a lot of time curled up in front of a glowing penguin with my knitting this winter, eating nice things that come out of teh Penguin's oven (I reckon if I wanted to fry hotter than the top was getting, I could just put the pan on the oven floor instead... now where's that enamel milk pan, that'd go nicely in here - hot chocolate on the Penguin...)

Kid with a new toy, that's me!

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 28 Sep 2007, 11:33

Ballard wrote: The Chili penguin stove comes with two concrete night storage blocks which slide into the oven whilst it is not being used, these store the heat very well and release overnight.

(I don't get a commission, honest)

Is it easy to take these out at the end of an evening and, for example, carry them through to another room?