Ukraine Watch...

[Ralphw2]

MOnbiot tells it like it is.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-military

[Mark]

Yup, the good 'ol one-way special relationship.....
Wonder if Charles will be forced into hosting another US State Visit....?
Maybe he'll get chance to deliver the blow....

Thought that would be our response - grovel and get out the bunting....
Seems to have got Starmer into Trump's good books though - for the moment anyway...

[invalid]

As I have mentioned previously, my father and my brother worked at an establishment continuously between them from 1943 to 2024. This establishment did a lot of intelligence gathering, and was a joint operation with US forces from 1944, the US contingent led by John G Trump. (Yes, a close relation).

My brother continued to work, I was by his side, laying in agony 10 days before he died of colon cancer, making phone calls to reschedule what I have to assume were intelligence meetings about the war in Ukraine.

I do not have the words to describe the betrayal I feel on behalf of my brother over some upstart nephew who is throwing away 80 years of treaties and shared values and at my family level two lifetimes of selfless duty and huge creative and military value over financial gain and the chance to chummy up to a world hard man and dictator.

Those that remember Little John may have some idea how I feel.

Appreciate the sentiments but all those who have suffered (and there are many) as a result of the American empire - their military, and the economic realities they enforced would obviously feel differently about the matter.

[Ralphw2]

Probably similar numbers who have brutally suffered and died at the hands of the Russian empire over the same period. Although, after Stalin and until Putin, the brutality slowly declined. Now it is back to the bad old days

[Ralphw2]

So, Trump and Vance mugged Zelinsky and booted him out of the Whitehouse for refusing to sign away mineral rights without some sort of security guarantee. All the European leaders immediately went on air to support Zelinsky - except one, so far. State visitor for Charlie, anyone?

[UndercoverElephant]

I can't actually believe what I just saw. It is like Trump and Vance are trying to say "We are so powerful that we can make up a load of complete bullshit, about something critically important for the future of the world, and everybody else must accept it as real." Zelensky could not do so without looking as completely insane as they are. He was therefore in an impossible position, created by Trump, and they got angry with him because he wouldn't do something he couldn't possibly do. And the whole world understands this apart from Trump. Including Vance.

Where the **** does this end?

A state visit is going to be quite surreal.

[clv101]

Wow, the contrast with Starmer in the oval office was incredible.

[invalid]

Great to see some people finally telling Zelensky how it is. And shout out to Vance for mentioning the busification phenomenon. Zbot immediately tried to deflect this. It's clear he doesn't care about the Ukrainian people nearly as much as the Don or JD.

[Ralphw2]

Yep. ALL the major European leaders have been quite trufully telling Zelinksy how it is. Trump is an evil power hungry dictator who will kill anybody to make more money and chummy up to other evil brutal dictators. All except Starmer so far.

[invalid]

What would you expect of the Eurocucks these days?

[invalid]

State Department terminates U.S. support of Ukraine energy grid restoration
The USAID initiative had invested hundreds of millions of dollars in helping Ukraine's energy grid recover from attacks from Russia.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/state- ... rcna194259

Macron going to put his hands in his people's pockets and pay for this, or just send bigly hurty tweets??

[UndercoverElephant]

So the situation is this.

Trump is only interested in the extortion of Ukraine -- he wants to leverage Ukraine's need for US weapons to get a mineral deal on very favourable terms. He doesn't care about European security at all -- it isn't even on his "radar". He clearly wants the war to end, and he's happy for this to happen in Putin's terms.

From a European point of view, Russia has to be stopped somewhere and it might as well be Ukraine. There is absolutely no strategic sense in allowing Putin to over-run Ukraine without at least trying to prevent this, and that means fully arming Ukraine without worrying about the risk of inflicting a strategic defeat -- we need to arm Ukraine with everything we've got, and allow it to strike deep inside Russia. We have to support escalation.

The extent to which this is short-sighted for the US is indescribable. Trump cannot get what he want -- he's pursued a strategy which could never have worked, because it didn't make any sense in the context everybody else is operating. In other words Trump thinks he is all powerful but actually this is an attempt for the tail (the US) to wag the dog (the whole of the rest of the world, not just Europe).

Presumably we are now going to see a whole chain of unthinkable events, leading who knows where. An escalation of the war seems extremely likely, and the potential for instability elsewhere in the world is suddenly much higher. And all the time we've got a US administration being led by a person who was never fit for office and is now showing clear signs of dementia. This won't be the last time he doesn't get what he wants. On the contrary -- he's going to end up with the whole world "defying" him and "not treating him with enough respect".

What is going to be left of the US by the time he is finished?

[invalid]

And from an actual Ukrainian point of view :

After more than two years of grinding conflict, Ukrainians are increasingly weary of the war with Russia. In Gallup’s latest surveys of Ukraine, conducted in August and October 2024, an average of 52% of Ukrainians would like to see their country negotiate an end to the war as soon as possible. Nearly four in 10 Ukrainians (38%) believe their country should keep fighting until victory.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/hal ... d-war.aspx

A great deal of the world is actually unaligned. Obviously for Europe's own interests they're willing to fight to the last Ukrainian . Shameful.

[Mark]

What a mess.
Looks like the UK, France, Germany and all the others are going to have to get involved militarily.
The Russians are badly degraded, but it's still going to be grim.

If it goes nuclear, who knows where it ends - MAD

[invalid]

The extent to which this is short-sighted for the US is indescribable. Trump cannot get what he want -- he's pursued a strategy which could never have worked, because it didn't make any sense in the context everybody else is operating. In other words Trump thinks he is all powerful but actually this is an attempt for the tail (the US) to wag the dog (the whole of the rest of the world, not just Europe).

This is patently false. Confidently incorrect as usual

Presumably we are now going to see a whole chain of unthinkable events, leading who knows where. An escalation of the war seems extremely likely, and the potential for instability elsewhere in the world is suddenly much higher. And all the time we've got a US administration being led by a person who was never fit for office and is now showing clear signs of dementia.

Did you say this about Biden?? I mean really the minerals aren't that important in the scheme of things. The main thing for Trump if to start cutting support to Ukraine, commitments, overheads and costs in Europe. There's no one who can to stop him doing that (as long as the deep state doesn't take him out).