Migrant watch (merged topic)

[UndercoverElephant]

290 beds? What's that then, a weekend's worth of crossings? They need to convert an oil tanker or something. I'd be surprised if anybody has the spine to make a difference, it's about doing just enough to look like you are tackling the problem.

I suspect Labour's strategists are already well aware that making a difference on this issue could make the difference between winning or not winning the next election.

[clv101]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y87yp75ego

The Home Office has outlined plans to tackle illegal immigration, including deploying 100 new intelligence officers to target people smuggling gangs.

Ministers are also promising a "large surge" in the number of flights removing failed asylum seekers and others in the UK illegally.

As part of its plan the government says it will reopen immigration removal centres in Hampshire and Oxfordshire, adding 290 beds.

This is all stuff that the Tories stopped, defunded. We should *always* have assessed asylum claims in weeks, not years, then deported or put to work as appropriate. The Tory plan of not processing claims and just putting tens of thousands up in hotels for years was outrageous.

[mr brightside]

290 beds? What's that then, a weekend's worth of crossings? They need to convert an oil tanker or something. I'd be surprised if anybody has the spine to make a difference, it's about doing just enough to look like you are tackling the problem.

I suspect Labour's strategists are already well aware that making a difference on this issue could make the difference between winning or not winning the next election.

Yeah, i suppose, i just don't think they have the backbone to be ruthless enough.

[kenneal - lagger]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y87yp75ego
..............
..............and just putting tens of thousands up in hotels for years was outrageous.

That is the stupid bit. They have been at this long enough to have built specialist accommodation that would have been far cheaper than using hotels. The problem isn't going away any time soon and with a bit of thought in the design the places could be amended to suite singles accommodation or low cost starter homes.

The government have been going on for years about building homes which can be adapted for future living without full scale demolition. This would have been a chance to show how it works.

[adam2]

In the Irish Republic, illegal migrants are being removed on the SAME DAY !
Contrast to the UK where it takes years of appeals and counter appeals, during which they generally disappear in the black economy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx24x47qp8no

[mr brightside]

Did anyone see C4 Dispatches last night? It was about the network of organised Romanian gangs carrying out shoplifting all over the country, but it goes a lot further into other branches of crime, the Indians involved are engaged in organised visa scams. There wasn't a single white British person involved, soft on legal or illegal immigration basically means soft on organised crime.

[Forever_Winter]

Over 900k arrived during 2023. How sustainable is that? A lot of them were family members of students! But according to Plodder Starmer, it was the fault of Brexit

[clv101]

To understand immigration you need to understand *why* the most nationalist government in at least a generation, with the mandate of Brexit behind them *chose* (because the vast majority are perfectly legal, taking advantage of newly opened routes of entry) to facilitate such record high immigration.

[BritDownUnder]

To understand immigration you need to understand *why* the most nationalist government in at least a generation, with the mandate of Brexit behind them *chose* (because the vast majority are perfectly legal, taking advantage of newly opened routes of entry) to facilitate such record high immigration.

Poor skills amongst the indigenous population and possibly a good dose of idleness thrown in too. Then the black economy where refugees can get some benefits and also work on the side too. I know you mentioned legal immigration and the Tories are as bad at immigration as Labour are.

[invalid]

More loot for the ruling class, no?

[UndercoverElephant]

To understand immigration you need to understand *why* the most nationalist government in at least a generation, with the mandate of Brexit behind them *chose* (because the vast majority are perfectly legal, taking advantage of newly opened routes of entry) to facilitate such record high immigration.

How would you answer your own question?

[UndercoverElephant]

I think we've reached a turning point in the discussion in Western society about migration. For the last 30 years an ideological, practical and legal battle has been raging. We have all watched it. All of us also know (I presume) that unlimited migration -- the open border policy attempted by Angela Merkel in 2015 -- cannot possibly work. Germany had to reverse the policy because opening the doors multiplied the number of migrants by at least ten. That was the high water mark of the leftist response to this problem, and when it failed we returned to the struggle. The defining characteristic of that struggle, from my perspective, has been the absence of political will by those in power to actually do whatever it takes to stop migration. The tory party was (and still is) hopelessly divided on the issue. Labour is still controlled by the leftists, and there is no way they will ever do what it takes. Today is the turning point because there is no doubt Trump has the political will to stop it, and it looks like he's got broad enough power and political support to do so to.

Stopping migration means mass deportation and the total crushing of hope of migrants -- the exact opposite of Merkel's policy. Potential migrants have to be made to understand that not only will everything be done to stop them getting in, but that if they do get in then they will deported with no caveats about where they are going to be deported to. They have to understand that the doors have just been slammed shut, and new locks fitted. I believe this strategy will actually work -- there will be no point in these migrants paying vast sums of money to traffickers in a desperate gamble that they will be able to get into the West. And once this has worked in one Western country then the clamour for similar policies to be enacted across the whole of the Western world will become irresistible. It is very obvious how it will play out in the UK -- both the Tories and Reform will offer a similar policy at the next election, Labour will offer some watered down rubbish that stands no chance of actually working and they will go down to a defeat worse than Corbyn's. In continental Europe some version of this story is also likely unfold -- I have lost count of the number of EU countries which are heading in this direction.

The culture wars are over and the left lost.

[mr brightside]

I still don't think anyone has the backbone to actually take it all the way. If anyone tries to remove people from this country in large numbers, i think all we will see is another organised sabotage like the letting down of the bus tyres last year. It won't take much to make policies tougher, Sunak et al accomplished that, but it will take a lot of effort to overcome the resistance from lunatic protestors.

[UndercoverElephant]

I still don't think anyone has the backbone to actually take it all the way. If anyone tries to remove people from this country in large numbers, i think all we will see is another organised sabotage like the letting down of the bus tyres last year. It won't take much to make policies tougher, Sunak et al accomplished that, but it will take a lot of effort to overcome the resistance from lunatic protestors.

Protestors cannot be allowed to prevent law-enforcers actually enforcing the laws made by parliament. Failure amounts to an existential threat to the state itself.

[clv101]

The problem with the West (US is a slightly different and unique case) going cold turkey on migration is that we are addicted to it, our economy is dependent on migrant labour across all sectors of society - heath and social care, carers and consultants, drivers, food (farming, manufacturing, retail etc), science, tech - especially the hyped pivot to AI... The UK, and much of the west has a rapidly aging population and for the last few decades the training and qualifications we've given our young has been poorly aligned with the work the economy actually needs.

There's a reason why the most right wing, nationalistic government in a generation, in the aftermath of Brexit *chose* (illegal movement was tiny) to facilitate record immigration. They knew the economy needed it. Whilst I'm sure the vast majority would like to see lower immigration, the cure might be worse than the disease - within a year or two of slamming the door (and a lot of folk leaving by choice due to the hostile political environment) the economy and many services may collapse.