Trumpwatch

[UndercoverElephant]

I think we need a thread for this. Today Trump has announced that he is renaming the Gulf of Mexico. From now on it will be called the Gulf of America. He has also repeated his statement that the US "needs" to acquire Greenland (allegedly for national security, but it is obviously also about mineral and biological resources) and that he's going to hit Denmark with "very high tariffs" if it doesn't sell Greenland to the US. He's also repeated his claim that the US is going to take control of the Panama Canal. Meanwhile Elon Musk is calling for the overthrow of the British government and the debasement of the legal system (by releasing Tommy Robinson for no good reason).

All of this is utterly insane. Is he actually planning to do anything of these things? Because I don't see his off-ramp here. He can't deliver any of this.

Labour's strategy at the last election was to promise as little as possible because they were expecting it to be very hard to deliver anything. Trump's strategy appears to be to promise the impossible on multiple fronts. What's the endgame?

[Forever_Winter]

All totally insane. But if you look into it, getting Greenland means China and Russia have less access to fossil fuels.

Panama Canal - ditto. Control access. Take that over means less money for China.

UK - the end of wokery. Musk lost one of his kids to the 'woke mind virus '. Or so he says.....

Canada - God knows.....

[UndercoverElephant]

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/07/mtg-tr ... erica-bill

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) said Tuesday she plans to introduce legislation renaming the Gulf of Mexico the "Gulf of America."

Why it matters: The measure is in response to President-elect Trump floating the idea at an earlier press conference — during which he also declined to rule out seizing Panama and Greenland by military force.

[Forever_Winter]

https://www.axios.com/2025/01/07/mtg-tr ... erica-bill

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) said Tuesday she plans to introduce legislation renaming the Gulf of Mexico the "Gulf of America."

Why it matters: The measure is in response to President-elect Trump floating the idea at an earlier press conference — during which he also declined to rule out seizing Panama and Greenland by military force.

This isn't as crazy as it sounds. Boot Chinese influence out of these regions and it gives the US a whip hand in these regions....

[Forever_Winter]

Furthermore, will the Labour government fall when Der Donald is elected???

[Mark]

Furthermore, will the Labour government fall when Der Donald is elected???

'Der Donald' is about right.....
He's already elected, so we'll have to see how the 'special relationship' develops, but I can only see it being a rocky 4 years....
Labour is already having to spend and awful lot of time/energy rebutting interference from Musk...
Suspect it's going to be very draining and distracting - something new every few days...
& they hold all the power and influence....

Know I'll get shot down for this, but suspect we'd have been far safer as part of a bigger EU Block....
Will be interesting to see if Denmark/Germany/France can fend him off any better than we can ??
Imagine planning permission for that golf course of his in Scotland will also be on his 'revenge' list...

[Ralphw2]

Gulf of America - purely symbolic. Lots of water areas have different names in different countries.

Greenland - Denmark should threaten to invoke article 5 of NATO - the US would be treaty bound to defend Greenland against it's own forces.

The Panama canal is a poison chalice. It is running out of water and its upgrading has been an engineering nightmare.

I wonder what would happen if all the countries of the major economic groupings got together and simply said they would simply refuse to cooperate with any trade or treaty change the US made under Trump's rule? 100% import tariffs? OK, today we stop exporting to the USA anything at all until they are removed.

The reality of Trumps presidency will be a lot more banal than the rhetoric. The rhetoric is simply his opening bargaining position. He is 99% bluff and always has been. The world outside of The Apprentice is a lot less naive than the USians who voted for Trump. He will massively under deliver in his foreign policy. The question is - will any of the people who voted for him even notice? They are already very far down the rabbit hole.

He will get through advisors and cabinet members at a record rate. Within 6 months the entire administration will be in total paralysis. The rich will get richer, the 99% will get poorer.

[Potemkin Villager]

UE wrote:-

" All of this is utterly insane. Is he actually planning to do anything of these things? Because I don't see his off-ramp here. He can't deliver any of this."

The whole point is for these fantasy projects to founder so he can play the victim card and blame others. Expect the resignations and firings to be even more fast and furious this time He is regressing more and more to his unhappy childhood and wants to take the world, and hopefully Musk, with him. I presume there is some sort of provision in the US constitution covering succession where the president is declared insane.

[Ralphw2]

25th amendment. It was widely discussed towards the end of his first term. I do not know if Trump is mentally ill or simply a psychopath. The reality is that there are already insufficient people left in the administration with the moral character to even breach the topic. In a few weeks, the few remaining ones will have been fired.

[UndercoverElephant]

I presume there is some sort of provision in the US constitution covering succession where the president is declared insane.

Classic Spitting Image...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p8cuN9Cv64

[BritDownUnder]

If I was a Greenlander I would certainly entertain the possibility of joining the US. Depends on the deal I suppose.

Trumps negotiating tactic will probably not help bringing Danish public opinion around. I don't know how the Greenlanders think culturally or even who gets the say on if Greenland can break away from Greenland. Also what does the US offer? Statehood for 56,000 people, US citizenship, being a territory?

The strategic possibilities for the US are pretty much endless. Nuclear submarine bases, ICBM silos, minerals etc.
While they are at it the US might also try to pry away some Canadian provinces as Canada are having a lot of problems with Trudeau and as some American wag said they, the US, don't want a failed state as a hat.

Panama Canal again for the strategic reasons. Ban Chinese shipping and charge all non-US shipping eye-watering tolls.

I have to say that the Greenland takeover is the most likely but still a long shot.

[mr brightside]

What's that enormous oil painting he's got on his wall? The one that Farage was recently photographed in front of. It's utterly hilarious, comically hilarious, it's like something out of The Fast Show. The guy is a total legend for all the wrong reasons.

[UndercoverElephant]

I don't know how the Greenlanders think culturally

They are socialists. By US standards, they are communists.

Greenland is sovereign territory of Denmark, though with significant devolved powers.

[BritDownUnder]

I don't know how the Greenlanders think culturally

They are socialists. By US standards, they are communists.

Greenland is sovereign territory of Denmark, though with significant devolved powers.

I would have thought that they are similar to Inuit who live in Canada and Alaska as I think the 'native' Greenlanders (who actually arrived in Greenland while the Vikings were in Greenland) are in a majority there over ethnic Danes. Like good socialists they are probably used to getting a lot of someone else's money from Denmark and I expect they will be getting a lot more now. Being socialist does not stop you being in the US - just ask Bernie Sanders - but they would probably want their healthcare paid for.

Everyone has their price but it depends who gets the say on leaving the Danish Union, the Greenlanders or the Danish government.

[Ralphw2]

Of course the US already has a major military establishment on northern greenland, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pituffik_Space_Base
formerly known as Thule air base and the most strategic nuclear defence site in the cold war, radar instalations giving the US the earliest warning of any Russian missile launches. Denmark still claims the site as part of its sovereign territory, but has made no attempt to reclaim it since they joined NATO. The US will also have lots of other smaller military/scientific outposts in the area.

This isn't about strategic defence, since the days of satellites the radars are secondary. It probably isn't about access to the substantial mineral resources which will become accessible as the polar ice melts. It is largely about distracting from the fact that the president elect is about to be sentenced for fraud in a US court of law.