Conservative party/opposition watch

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

Moderator: Peak Moderation

User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13478
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Re: Conservative government/opposition watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

mr brightside wrote: 01 Aug 2024, 06:57 The problem is that the world looks and feels very solid and real, so people have trouble getting to grips with the fact that it actually isn't. I like Heisenberg's summary of it, that matter behaves like a thought not a thing.
Yes and no. It certainly isn't real in the way it seems to be. Reality isn't local, even the hardest material is mostly empty space, and unobserved quantum entities can literally be in multiple places at the same time. Even time isn't how it appears to be.

However, it is very easy to take this too far. If reality isn't local and a photon can be in multiple locations simultaneously, then is there an objective world at all? Or is there only subjective consciousness? Or can the components of conscious experience somehow objectively exist without an observer? I think that this is not a helpful rabbit hole to go down. We will never be able to agree on the answers to these questions. Wittgenstein described them as a sort of "ritual", whereby we exorcise our need to talk about metaphysics but end up talking nonsense.

The world is real in the sense that the range of possible future observations is finite. Even though the future is not fixed, our options are strictly limited. If I climb out of a 10th story window and try to fly then I will fall to my death. When we open Schrodinger's box, we may find either a living cat or a dead one, but we will not find a dog. Even if retrocausality is true and the past can change, it can only change in certain ways. In nearly all practical senses, that is surely real enough. I think the only reasonable explanation is that the world actually is real -- it's just non-local, and there's no point in speculating about "what it is made of", because it doesn't make any difference. The only thing that does make a difference is which of three possible groups of QM interpretations are true -- MWI, objectively random or hidden forms of causality masquerading as randomness. The answer to that question makes the difference between Ralph believing he's a meat robot and me believing in free will, but we're both still realists. I am just a realist about more things than he is.

To get this back on topic...the core argument here is whether is comes before ought, or ought comes before is. Wokeism could be defined in terms of the belief that ought comes before is. I am defending the claim that is must come before ought. So the gender ideologies believe that we should treat trans people as they want to be treated -- we ought to accept that trans women are women (and if we don't then we must hate them). Whereas I believe that "ought" is irrelevant, because men can't become women. "Sex" belongs to the world of "is" -- to reality. "Gender" belongs to the world of ought. This conflict is binary. One side is right and the other is wrong. There is no middle way, and that's why the culture wars are going to have to be played out to the bitter end.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13478
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Re: Conservative government/opposition watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Potemkin Villager wrote: 30 Jul 2024, 18:02 What does caving in to the woke brigade mean in practice? Indeed who exactly is "the woke brigade"?
Here is it being played out:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqe6npgyr5ro
The British Medical Association (BMA) has called for the ban on puberty blockers for under-18s to be lifted.

The doctors’ union also wants a pause on the implementation of a landmark review into gender care for children and young people.

It said it wanted to undertake an evaluation of the Cass Review after academics expressed concern about its approach.
"Academics" refers to the generals of the woke brigade. They are trying to get the Cass Review overturned, because it calls out their ideologically driven unscientific bullshit for what it is. Looks like they are in control of the BMA, just as they have wormed their way into many other important institutions. These are the very same academics whose theories were debunked by Hilary Cass.

The good news is that it appears they are not influential enough for the current Labour government to cave into them.
A Department of Health and Social Care spokesperson said: "The Cass Review is a robust report backed by clinicians and firmly grounded in evidence.

"NHS England will be implementing Dr Cass's recommendations so that children and young people get the safe, holistic care and support they need. We do not support a delay to vital improvements from the NHS to gender services."
Another source:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24489 ... on-paused/
THE doctors’ union has called for the implementation of the Cass Review to be paused while it carries out a “critique” of the report’s implementation.
"critique" is quoted because of the direct link with Critical Theory. This is how CT operates.
Members of the BMA's council recently voted in favour of a motion which asked the association to “publicly critique the Cass Review”, due to what it called “unsubstantiated recommendations driven by unexplained study protocol deviations, ambiguous eligibility criteria, and exclusion of trans-affirming evidence”.
In other words, Cass ignored their propaganda.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13478
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/to ... r-AA1opVdd
Tory leadership poll bombshell as three clear frontrunners emerge in race

Robert Jenrick is the frontrunner in the Tory leadership race with Kemi Badenoch and Dame Priti Patel just behind, according to new polling.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
User avatar
Mark
Posts: 2516
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 08:48
Location: NW England

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by Mark »

Which Conservative leadership hopeful is best hope for UK’s climate goals ?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ar ... mate-goals

So in conclusion - none of the above...
Ralphw2
Posts: 516
Joined: 05 Jul 2023, 21:18

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by Ralphw2 »

Preti Patel out of the race.
User avatar
Mark
Posts: 2516
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 08:48
Location: NW England

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by Mark »

Robert Jenrick 28
Kemi Badenoch 22
James Cleverly 21
Tom Tugendhat 17
Mel Stride 16
Priti Patel 14

Nothing to choose between them. Literally.
Who'd have thought the main contender to lead the Tory Party would be celebrating getting 28 votes ?
User avatar
clv101
Site Admin
Posts: 10540
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Contact:

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by clv101 »

Those numbers really highlight how few Tories MP there are these days!
User avatar
Mark
Posts: 2516
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 08:48
Location: NW England

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by Mark »

clv101 wrote: 04 Sep 2024, 21:35 Those numbers really highlight how few Tories MP there are these days!
Yup, those 15 people (14 voters, plus Priti herself) will now have their phones bombarded by the other 5 and their supporters - suspect most of these votes will now go to Kemi Badenoch ?
Mel Stride seems the most likely to be out next, but there's still a good couple of months of this to go...
It must feel like torture for the poor dears...
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13478
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

clv101 wrote: 04 Sep 2024, 21:35 Those numbers really highlight how few Tories MP there are these days!
It is also really noticeable at PMQs. Far less like a zoo than it was.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
User avatar
Mark
Posts: 2516
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 08:48
Location: NW England

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by Mark »

More than 5,000 contracts worth £15 billion for PPE which were awarded by the Conservatives during the Covid-19 pandemic 'had corruption red flags', investigation reveals
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ation.html

Corruption review finds 'red flags' in more than 130 Covid contracts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cevj3y7n33vo

Corrupt COVID worth £15 billion - no wonder the new government has inherited a financial black hole...
Surprised the DM is reporting this...
User avatar
Potemkin Villager
Posts: 1959
Joined: 14 Mar 2006, 10:58
Location: Narnia

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by Potemkin Villager »

Sadly this is just the new normal.
We really and truly are totally fecked.
Enjoy whatever little or much you have whilst you still can.
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
User avatar
Potemkin Villager
Posts: 1959
Joined: 14 Mar 2006, 10:58
Location: Narnia

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by Potemkin Villager »

UndercoverElephant wrote: 05 Sep 2024, 18:20
clv101 wrote: 04 Sep 2024, 21:35 Those numbers really highlight how few Tories MP there are these days!
It is also really noticeable at PMQs. Far less like a zoo than it was.
Daddy's takin' us to the zoo tomorrow
And we can stay all day.......
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
User avatar
mr brightside
Posts: 584
Joined: 01 Apr 2011, 08:02
Location: On the fells

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by mr brightside »

Potemkin Villager wrote: 09 Sep 2024, 22:42 Sadly this is just the new normal.
I came to that conclusion years ago, not that it's a competition. Corruption, greed, and unprofessionalism is what i expect from politicians; i don't expect them to serve anyone but themselves and their cronies.
Persistence of habitat, is the fundamental basis of persistence of a species.
User avatar
Mark
Posts: 2516
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 08:48
Location: NW England

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by Mark »

Mel Stride the latest to go...
Robert Jenrick 33
Kemi Badenoch 28
James Cleverly 21
Tom Tugendhat 21
Mel Stride 16

And then there were 4...., but nobody is really stepping forward from the pack...
Robert Jenrick wins by default ?
User avatar
UndercoverElephant
Posts: 13478
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
Location: UK

Re: Conservative party/opposition watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Hard to say. The 16 who voted for Stride might mostly switch to Cleverly. I think Tugendhat will be the next to go. Too close to call between the other three. Just a guess.

I am beginning to wonder how much difference it is going to make though. How can the tories make themselves look like a party for the future? How can they start attracting younger voters to replace the 30% (or whatever it is) of their current voters who will have died before the next election? I don't see the answer anywhere on that list.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
Post Reply