The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

What changes can we make to our lives to deal with the economic and energy crises ahead? Have you already started making preparations? Got tips to share?

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Vortex2
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by Vortex2 »

now a physical attack on fiber optic data cables in France.
FWIW a road digger cut cables otrside Telehouse in East London a few years back.
Aropund 50% of the UK's Internet went down for some hours.

A deliberate multi-location attack would bring the whole system down .. at very little risk or cost to the perps.
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by kenneal - lagger »

Russian submarines have already been snooping around undersea internet cables according to the tv programme on HMS Northumberland a few months ago which was tasked to chase then off but had its towed sonar array cable cut, probably by the Russian sub.
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by adam2 »

The current heatwave emergency has again underlined the need for a proper UK civil defence organisation.
Among the equipment that I suggested in the O/P were basic fire engines and huge stocks of fire hose.

Since then, the water supply to the Isle of Sheppey failed for several days. A properly equipped civil defence unit could have pumped water to the affected area.

And today we have seen a number of serious fires in which homes have been destroyed by fires that spread from grassland. A civil defence organisation with basic but plentiful fire fighting equipment could have fought the "open country" fires, leaving the "proper" fire brigades free to deal with the more challenging fires.
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

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Regarding emergency water supply and fire fighting, what is IMHO needed is a large number of basic fire engines. A SLIGHTLY updated version of these
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_God ... 20operated

Must be simple to use and robust, intended for use by volunteers after only basic training.
Duplicated engine starting, probably electric start and cartridge start. Tolerant of poor quality fuel, preferably able to run on kerosene/heating oil.
4 wheel drive, at least.
Able to tow a heavy trailer that contains another pump, extra hose, or other supplies.
A built in fire pump and a portable pump.
At least 1,000 metres of standard delivery hose.
Able to run the pump at full power for at least 24 hours without replenishment or servicing.
Operable by two men for water pumping, but able to carry a crew of six for fire fighting.
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by adam2 »

A civil defence organisation needs to keep a good stock of basic hand tools for use in or after any future emergency.
Here is a good example of a civil defence tool kit from the 1960s, well chosen selection for search and rescue, dismantling, rough repairs, and basic shelter construction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyrvQfeIwYg

I wonder how many similar kits are kept in stock in the UK, none I suspect.
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by BritDownUnder »

Looks very good that civil defence kit. I always try to get Swedish, German or American made hand tools, even UK made if available as they certainly last well. I have Sheffield steel knives I brought over from the UK 25 years ago that still work better than a new Made in China one.

I could rustle up together all those tools from my garage. About 10 years ago there were a lot of garage sales around here and you could get nice old tools at a few of them.

Civil defence is something that the UK does not seem to do well. Even in Australia there is the SES (State Emergency Service) which help in the aftermath of fires and floods and each town has a SES building.
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adam2
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

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This report, does in my view underline the need for a civil defence organisation equipped with basic fire engines and other equipment.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66131541

100 basic fire engines and crews trained in their use would have been very helpful. The crews need not be trained to the same high standards as local authority firefighters.
Fighting fires in the open is relatively simple, but needs plenty of water and a lot of manpower.
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by adam2 »

HMG have recently announced plans to re-introduce conscription/National service.
Perhaps some of these conscripts could be used in civil defence ? A fairly small number could be engaged on a rolling programme of testing and inspecting civil defence stores and equipment.

Erect the large tents to gain familiarity and to ensure that they are serviceable. Examine the folding beds and the blankets, and then use them to sleep in the tents. Erect temporary showers and toilets by use of stockpiled equipment and use these for a week or two. Produce meals by means of the stockpiled catering equipment, and largely from the stockpiled foods. Shoot a cow with a service rifle, butcher and cook it, under the guidance of an experienced person.
Afterwards wash and dry the blankets etc. by means of the industrial laundry equipment in the emergency stocks.

All this would feed and shelter the conscripts at minimum cost during training camps etc, and also give familiarity with the equipment and skills needed in any future emergency.
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by mr brightside »

adam2 wrote: 27 May 2024, 22:55 Shoot a cow...
Bit extreme, perhaps?
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by adam2 »

mr brightside wrote: 28 May 2024, 12:27
adam2 wrote: 27 May 2024, 22:55 Shoot a cow...
Bit extreme, perhaps?
Under the supervision of a vet or licensed slaughter man, to avoid suffering, but subject to that precaution not extreme at all. Turning a live cow or other large animal in to a meal for a large crowd is a useful skill
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by adam2 »

Here is another report regarding the large fire in Wennington, East London. (also referred to in a previous post)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wennington_wildfire
The scale of the damage in a built up area of a major city in a developed nation is shocking.
A team of a few dozen* civil defence workers equipped with basic fire engines, portable pumps, and generous lengths of fire hose could have greatly reduced the damage. And given the warning of extreme heat they could have been pre-positioned nearby.

*A few dozen men and perhaps a dozen fire engines, to serve the local area. A few hundred salaried civil defence workers would be needed to cover the nation, and a pool of volunteers in addition.
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by adam2 »

The ongoing flooding disaster in Spain should be a warning as to the need for properly equipped civil defence organisation in the UK. Something similar could happen in the UK, and probably will.
Many of those affected in Spain are critical of the response by their government, but would OUR government do any better ? I fear not at present.
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Re: The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

Post by BritDownUnder »

Interesting website about flooding and the Great Wall of Pixham that a man built around his house to prevent flooding up to a certain level. I doubt the UK government would do any better than Spain.

I wonder if dredging rivers would help in some cases. I saw a video about flooding around Beverley in East Yorkshire and how building crude dams in the headwaters of streams helped to reduce water load during extreme rain events.
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