Israel/palestine conflict, worsens.

[adam2]

I have deleted some posts and edited others to remove insults.
Differing views are fine, but insulting the member with whom you disagree is not fine.
Further edits and deletions are probable.

[Ralphw2]

The BBC has an arctle which describes an Israeli settler group who are already planning their new beachside residences on the shore of the Gaza Strip, ready for when the army fully depopulates it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815

[Yves75]

The BBC has an arctle which describes an Israeli settler group who are already planning their new beachside residences on the shore of the Gaza Strip, ready for when the army fully depopulates it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68650815

Are you OK to bet 100 pounds that Israel will not annex Gaza in any shape or form (besides maybe putting a half mile or something as a buffer zone) ?
did you know that between 48 and 67 Gaza was under Egypt occupation ? (I bet not)

[Ralphw2]

I do know that Israeli settlers were withdrawn from the Gaza Strip when the Palestinian authority was set up in the area. Presumably as preparation for a future two state solution.

The problem for me is that every section of each culture is looking to the past to justify their future claims on the ground, as far back as necessary to justify their own position. There will only ever be peace when peoples draw a line under history and look forward to what they can do to make life tolerable for each. The problem is not if a few settlers return to small enclaves they once occupied for a period, but where are the two million current occupants of Gaza going to live, after almost their entire infrastructure has been destroyed, trying to root out the small number of fanatics who wanted nothing more than the total war that Israel has responded with?

The UN Security Council has passed a resolution for immediate ceasefire, after the US abstained.

This war cannot go on for ever

[adam2]

GPS system has been turned off or degraded in Israel and nearby areas.
This is reported to be in response to fears that Iran may attack Israel. Iran are believed to have nuclear weapons, and are IMHO mad enough to use them.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68734689

[UndercoverElephant]

And at the same time the US says Israel must stop committing genocide in Gaza or US aid to Israel will stop. We have reached a crunch point I think.

[UndercoverElephant]

This war cannot go on for ever

This isn't a war at all.

[Ralphw2]

There is huge talk about calling on the UK government to stop exporting arms to Israel. This is purely symbolic, we export very little arms to them. We IMPORT far more from Israel arms and defence companies owned directly by the Israeli state. If we cancelled those contracts then Israel might start listening.

[UndercoverElephant]

Here we go. Iran launches a wave of drones at Israel. I wonder how many will get through.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68810053

[clv101]

My fairly uninformed opinion is that very little of what Iran can launch at Israel will get through, they have drones, cruise missiles and ballistic missiles. The drones and cruise missiles will all be easy to intercept, the ballistics should, on paper also be taken care of by their 'David's Sling' and 'Arrow' systems that can intercept ballistics in space.

It all comes down to volume. IF Hezbollah can launch literally thousands of rockets (50kg payloads) and dozens of ballistics (3-500kg payloads) per hour, as well as Iran's hundreds of drones and cruise missiles then the defence systems will be overwhelmed, but that's a big if.

I'm not expecting Israel to suffer huge damage tonight - but a lot of stuff will fall out of the sky in populated areas so there will be some damage.

Israel is a very different target now compared with '91 when Iraq's Scud missiles caused damage.

[adam2]

If the Iranian weapons are indeed largely dealt with by the various Israeli defences, my concern is that Iran will resort to nuclear weapons. A near miss or a weapon shot down near the target will still be hugely destructive.

[clv101]

If hundreds of Israelis are killed how do Israel respond? History suggests asymmetrical response, and Iran is a hard target to attack conventionally. Far away, very big, lots of air defence, all the important military still is underground... why wouldn't Israel use a nuke against Iran if hundreds are killed tonight?

Anyone thinking about oil and gas? Strait of Hormuz, only route to the open ocean for over one-sixth of global oil production and one-third of the world’s liquified natural gas.

[BritDownUnder]

Here we go. Iran launches a wave of drones at Israel. I wonder how many will get through.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68810053

Iraqis and Jordanians wave as they go past.

You could look at the measures taken against V1s during WW2 as an estimate. Supposedly there were gun lines, fighter interception zones, observers all doing their bit. The first radar AA gun laying devices were perfected against the V1 menace.

I think the old fashioned AA gun with radar control and proximity shells will still have a role. I hear there are even 57mm (about 2 inches in diameter) shells with proximity and even guidance capabilities.

[clv101]

It's quite possible Iran's attack isn't total, and is more like a limited military response to the consulate attack - tit for tat - ball will be in Israel's court as to the next level of escalation.

[BritDownUnder]

If hundreds of Israelis are killed how to Israel respond? History suggests asymmetrical response, and Iran is a hard target to attack conventionally. Far away, very big, lots of air defence, all the important military still is underground... why wouldn't Israel use a nuke against Iran is hundreds are killed tonight?

Anyone thinking about oil and gas? Strait of Hormuz, only route to the open ocean for over one-sixth of global oil production and one-third of the world’s liquified natural gas.

Israeli EMP response perhaps. Or attacks on the Bushehr nuclear plant. Drone factories?

Iran also has to export oil and gas to survive. They are better placed for food reserves than most other Middle East countries but are still a food importer.

Meanwhile in America... according to the Daily Mail.

Anti Israel protester exercising freedom of speech during council meeting to threaten to kill Bakersfield councillors on Wednesday.



Then, on Friday in court facing $2m bail and 18 felony counts including threatening to kill same councillors and facing 25 years in prison.