RenewableCandy wrote:I used to be really puzzled about why poor people voted tory.
Two words: The Sun.
Now I'm also puzzled about why moderately-well-off people do
Three words: The Daily Mail.
More broadly, the general Tory mantra of "look after number one" appeals to everyone who wants to "make it".
The IMPLICATION is that the Tories are going to take less money off YOU to redistribute to the unworthy. Most people don't actually do the maths to see which side of the worthy/unworthy line they are on. After all, they might not like what they find. Most people would rather lose out financially than think of themselves as losers.
Very succint Ludwig and, I suspect, extremely true Groupthink in action....
Well over a decade has passed since the start of this thread, no rationing or near term forecast of same.
Except in extreme circumstances such as war, free markets work. Oil prices have increased, and electric vehicles are becoming more popular.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Rationing has its place. The WW2 rationing was probably to prevent a complete breakdown of supply systems and the development of a black market in everything. Outside of a war the government prefers the free market. I think it will be the free market all the way from here until just prior to collapse when I would say a Labour government will bring it in - maybe in the case of severe supply restrictions or global hostilities. Not sure about the Conservatives though. One can only wonder what someone like Liz Truss thinks about rationing and Peak Oil in general.
Need to realise that the 'free market' is simply a form of rationing, just one where money is used instead of the ration book. Oh, and money isn't evenly distributed meaning important/powerful/successful/lucky people get more.
I think most economists would disagree. Rationing is arguably a form of extreme price ceiling and supply control. An economist considers most materials except for air as scare resources that have a market price or pricing structure.
clv101 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 09:40
Need to realise that the 'free market' is simply a form of rationing, just one where money is used instead of the ration book. Oh, and money isn't evenly distributed meaning important/powerful/successful/lucky people get more.
That is a distortion of the normal meaning of the word "rationing". The whole point in rationing is to bypass the free market in order to attempt to ensure that everybody has access to a given amount of critical resources, instead of those with the financial means getting more than their "fair share" and in doing so driving up the price for everybody else and creating huge profits for sellers.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
clv101 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 09:40
Need to realise that the 'free market' is simply a form of rationing, just one where money is used instead of the ration book. Oh, and money isn't evenly distributed meaning important/powerful/successful/lucky people get more.
That is a distortion of the normal meaning of the word "rationing". The whole point in rationing is to bypass the free market in order to attempt to ensure that everybody has access to a given amount of critical resources, instead of those with the financial means getting more than their "fair share" and in doing so driving up the price for everybody else and creating huge profits for sellers.
People whose "financial means" allow for them "getting more than their "fair share"" have always done so and always will so long as there are people with "financial means" This happens in this fabled "free market" of yours no more or less than in any other system of human organization including ones where "rationing" is implemented more explicitly.
The thing you call "free markets" is merely the current means of accruing and/or distributing resources that happens to have been de rigueur in this part of the world for a while. When that stops working, others systems will be implemented.
northernmonkey wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 20:46
People whose "financial means" allow for them "getting more than their "fair share"" have always done so and always will so long as there are people with "financial means" This happens in this fabled "free market" of yours no more or less than in any other system of human organization including ones where "rationing" is implemented more explicitly.
Sure, but rationing means that doing so is illegal.
The thing you call "free markets" is merely the current means of accruing and/or distributing resources that happens to have been de rigueur in this part of the world for a while. When that stops working, others systems will be implemented.
Hint: its no longer working
I am not sure what point you are making, or why.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
clv101 wrote: ↑02 Jan 2024, 11:28
Indeed, rationing by price.
Yeah, I tried that one out once on 2 different PhDs and they laughed at the idea, as a basic misunderstanding of how the three way relationship between supply, demand and price works.
Groupthink in action....
