Conservative party/opposition watch

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

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Potemkin Villager
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Potemkin Villager »

UndercoverElephant wrote: 13 Nov 2023, 15:07
clv101 wrote: 13 Nov 2023, 14:08 The main thing it would 'do' would be to help the economy, trade being rather important. Elections are won and lost on the strength of the economy.


The brexit referendum wasn't though, was it? If it had been mostly about economics, remain would have won.



I do so wonder what exactly it was about.

There is a sort of rich irony about "Lord" posh boy, the progenitor of Brexit and austerity, being
parachuted in to the top table. What can he possibly get wrong this time around? They will be calling on that obnoxious creep Osborn next.
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Braverman's resignation letter. WOW! I have never seen anything like this in British politics. It's a bit like Geoffrey Howe's stabbing of Thatcher, but considerably more frank and brutal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67416146
Despite you having been rejected by a majority of party members during the summer leadership contest and thus having no personal mandate to be prime minister, I agreed to support you because of the firm assurances you gave me on key policy priorities. These were, among other things:

Reduce overall legal migration as set out in the 2019 manifesto through, inter alia, reforming the international students route and increasing salary thresholds on work visas
Include specific "notwithstanding clauses" into new legislation to stop the boats, ie exclude the operation of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), Human Rights Act (HRA) and other international law that had thus far obstructed progress on this issue
Deliver the Northern Ireland Protocol and Retained EU Law Bills in their then existing form and timetable
Issue unequivocal statutory guidance to schools that protects biological sex, safeguards single sex spaces, and empowers parents to know what is being taught to their children.
This was a document with clear terms to which you agreed in October 2022 during your second leadership campaign. I trusted you. It is generally agreed that my support was a pivotal factor in winning the leadership contest and thus enabling you to become prime minister.

For a year, as home secretary I have sent numerous letters to you on the key subjects contained in our agreement, made requests to discuss them with you and your team, and put forward proposals on how we might deliver these goals.

I worked up the legal advice, policy detail and action to take on these issues. This was often met with equivocation, disregard and a lack of interest.

You have manifestly and repeatedly failed to deliver on every single one of these key policies. Either your distinctive style of government means you are incapable of doing so. Or, as I must surely conclude now, you never had any intention of keeping your promises.

These are not just pet interests of mine. They are what we promised the British people in our 2019 manifesto which led to a landslide victory. They are what people voted for in the 2016 Brexit Referendum.

Our deal was no mere promise over dinner, to be discarded when convenient and denied when challenged.

I was clear from day one that if you did not wish to leave the ECHR, the way to securely and swiftly deliver our Rwanda partnership would be to block off the ECHR, the HRA and any other obligations which inhibit our ability to remove those with no right to be in the UK. Our deal expressly referenced "notwithstanding clauses" to that effect.

Your rejection of this path was not merely a betrayal of our agreement, but a betrayal of your promise to the nation that you would do "whatever it takes" to stop the boats.

At every stage of litigation I cautioned you and your team against assuming we would win. I repeatedly urged you to take legislative measures that would better secure us against the possibility of defeat. You ignored these arguments. You opted instead for wishful thinking as a comfort blanket to avoid having to make hard choices. This irresponsibility has wasted time and left the country in an impossible position.

If we lose in the Supreme Court, an outcome that I have consistently argued we must he prepared for, you will have wasted a year and an Act of Parliament, only to arrive back at square one.

Worse than this, your magical thinking - believing that you can will your way through this without upsetting polite opinion - has meant you have failed to prepare any sort of credible Plan B.

I wrote to you on multiple occasions setting out what a credible Plan B would entail, and making clear that unless you pursue these proposals, in the event of defeat, there is no hope of flights this side of an election. I received no reply from you.

I can only surmise that this is because you have no appetite for doing what is necessary, and therefore no real intention of fulfilling your pledge to the British people.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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Mark
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Mark »

Well, it's certainly powerful stuff.
Sunak and Cleverly are going to have to show significant progress on immigration in the next year...
Every move they make will be scrutinised against the contents of her letter....

Can't see the Tories having another leadership contest before the GE....
However, she now looks positioned as clear favourite, should they lose the GE...
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Mark wrote: 14 Nov 2023, 20:55 Can't see the Tories having another leadership contest before the GE....
I would not rule it out, personally. Although if I was her, I'd rather spend a term in opposition sorting out the party. It may not be her that precipitates though. It might be tory backbenchers who think that even if she loses the election they might at least stand a better chance of holding on to their seats.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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Mark
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Mark »

Another 3/4 months for a Leadership Election, so close to a GE ?
So they'd have to face the people having had BoJo, Truss, Sunak and ano ?

They'd be well into Banana Republic territory if they did that...., personally I just can't see they're that stupid...
As an aside, anyone remember the Woody Allen film 'Bananas' ?
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

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Mark wrote: 14 Nov 2023, 21:37 They'd be well into Banana Republic territory if they did that....,
They've been in Banana Republic territory since Truss became leader.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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clv101
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Re: Conservative government watch

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Wow, this unanimous ruling from Supreme Court on Rwanda was clear and damning. Government have been gaslighting us for months, it never stood a chance of being lawful and Gov must have known it. Worth reading/watching the full ruling not just media coverage. Israel gets a couple of mentions.
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1724 ... 06lgA&s=19
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Mark
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Mark »

Braverman must have been tipped off......
Ralphw2
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Ralphw2 »

The policy would still be illegal even if the UK withdrew from the ECHR.
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Potemkin Villager
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Potemkin Villager »

Apparently they had a lot of legal advice! :roll:
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
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clv101
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by clv101 »

Ralphw2 wrote: 15 Nov 2023, 11:39 The policy would still be illegal even if the UK withdrew from the ECHR.
Yes, this was a key part of the ruling. Let's see how strong the calls are to join Russia and Belarus in leaving.
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

clv101 wrote: 15 Nov 2023, 10:24 Wow, this unanimous ruling from Supreme Court on Rwanda was clear and damning. Government have been gaslighting us for months, it never stood a chance of being lawful and Gov must have known it.
In which case Sunak is guilt of lies which were both cynical and pointless. Why make a great song and dance about immigration if you aren't willing to grasp the nettle? Braverman was right (about this, at least).
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

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clv101 wrote: 15 Nov 2023, 12:52
Ralphw2 wrote: 15 Nov 2023, 11:39 The policy would still be illegal even if the UK withdrew from the ECHR.
Yes, this was a key part of the ruling. Let's see how strong the calls are to join Russia and Belarus in leaving.
Parliament is sovereign in this country. It makes the laws. The court's job is to interpret and implement them. It cannot be impossible for the government to make this legal. The courts cannot over-rule the government about what the law is.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

New poll out -- taken before Braverman's resignation and today's ruling (obviously) -- puts the tories on 19% and Reform on 11%.

https://www.gbnews.com/politics/reform- ... ishi-sunak

The way things are going the tories are going to struggle to hold on to 50 seats.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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Mark
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Mark »

The Tories have been here before with UKIP, but it's very difficult for any new party to break through with our FPTP voting system..
They've been 'the establishment' for centuries - there are lots of levers they can pull and their media coverage in any GE would be x10 Reform's...
So I wouldn't write them off just yet...
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