Ukraine Watch...

[clv101]

I think Ken's spot on regarding Poland - if there are going to be NATO boots on the ground (and I believe that's pretty much impossible for Ukraine to reclaim the territory without that), the majority will be Poles and if Western support crumble - Poland is who Ukraine will look to for unilateral support. I know quite a few poles with long memories and Russian atrocities - a deep hatred remains.

[Catweazle]

How can there ever be NATO 'boots on the ground' in Ukraine ?

That would be a serious escalation that Russia definitely would respond to.

[clv101]

I didn't say there would be, just that I think that's the only way Ukraine will reclaim the ground, and we're it to happen, Poles would be front and center.

[UndercoverElephant]

Interesting theory that Ukraine has deliberately turned this into a war of attrition because Russia can't politically mobilise any more soldiers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lebWSl49R0c&t=85s

[Default0ptions]

I think Ken's spot on regarding Poland - if there are going to be NATO boots on the ground (and I believe that's pretty much impossible for Ukraine to reclaim the territory without that), the majority will be Poles and if Western support crumble - Poland is who Ukraine will look to for unilateral support. I know quite a few poles with long memories and Russian atrocities - a deep hatred remains.

Granted. Poland would love to end up with the western rump of Ukraine.

[Default0ptions]

Interesting theory that Ukraine has deliberately turned this into a war of attrition because Russia can't politically mobilise any more soldiers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lebWSl49R0c&t=85s

UE, this stuff is so irrelevant that it’s not even worth dismissing.

Ukraine, with the full support of NATO, has totally failed to get anywhere with the spring offensive. Russia remains in control of the territory it set out to protect.

Just look at where things are on the ground.

Continuing to delude yourself on the basis of western propaganda just makes you a laughing stock to those poor souls actually living and suffering there

[clv101]

Ukraine, with the full support of NATO, has totally failed to get anywhere with the spring offensive.

Ukraine has nothing like the full support of NATO! Ukraine has received the minimum support to avoid defeat, massive difference. *Full support* would be 10,000 sorties in a fortnight, destroying every bit of Russia hardware in the territory.

For reference, during the Gulf War, between 17 January 1991 and 23 February 1991 the United States led coalition flew over 100,000 sorties, dropping 88,500 tons of bombs. That's what *full support* would look like. Had the west been serious, 'we' could have started such a campaign on day 2 of Russia's invasion.

[Default0ptions]

Ukraine, with the full support of NATO, has totally failed to get anywhere with the spring offensive.

Ukraine has nothing like the full support of NATO! Ukraine has received the minimum support to avoid defeat, massive difference. *Full support* would be 10,000 sorties in a fortnight, destroying every bit of Russia hardware in the territory.

And would trigger world wide Armageddon.

So the best they can do short of that has turned out to be pretty much useless.

“ For reference, during the Gulf War, between 17 January 1991 and 23 February 1991 the United States led coalition flew over 100,000 sorties, dropping 88,500 tons of bombs. That's what *full support* would look like.”

Well You’ve just proved my point there about the fact that Russia hasn’t done that to Ukraine.

Do you get some kind of pleasure from the thousands of deaths that US bombing caused? Are you proud of that?

[Forever_Winter]

Ukraine, with the full support of NATO, has totally failed to get anywhere with the spring offensive.

Ukraine has nothing like the full support of NATO! Ukraine has received the minimum support to avoid defeat, massive difference. *Full support* would be 10,000 sorties in a fortnight, destroying every bit of Russia hardware in the territory.

For reference, during the Gulf War, between 17 January 1991 and 23 February 1991 the United States led coalition flew over 100,000 sorties, dropping 88,500 tons of bombs. That's what *full support* would look like. Had the west been serious, 'we' could have started such a campaign on day 2 of Russia's invasion.

Exactly. Full NATO involvement would involve a complete collapse of the Russian Federation. They would then be forced to use nuclear weapons. If that happened, all bets are off. More likely, Russia would break up into various regions such as the New Ukraine Republic and the South would be part of the 'stans and the rest would fall under Turkiye. The oil would be sold off by the Yanks to pay for Net Zero lol.

[Default0ptions]

Reply to Forever Winter (too long to quote)

This whole situation will end up with Russia holding the territory it had to protect and the remaining western rump of Ukraine becoming Polish.

Unless we’re stupid enough to trigger all out nuclear war.

Look at the map of Ukraine and the regions Russia felt it had to protect.

The positions aren’t changed after all the blathering about spring offensives and how technically wonderful nato weapons and sanctions have made the slightest difference.

I do get so bored repeating this, but the world just has to accept that US/NATO totally f***ed this up and look like total and powerless losers - and even expect the rest of the world that an obviously Alzheimer’s demented president is in charge?

The whole world is laughing at you. Yeah, you could nuke us all - but as the ‘leaders of the free world’ you are beyond parody.

What I would really like to see is some attempt for the world to come together and try to plan a way forward from this shitshow.

[Forever_Winter]

Lol you responded too quick. You must be a robot .

[Forever_Winter]

Truth be told, the biggest winners will be Turkiye, they will happily take over large parts of the Russian Federation.

[Forever_Winter]

Reply to Forever Winter (too long to quote)


What I would really like to see is some attempt for the world to come together and try to plan a way forward from this shitshow.

Ain't that the truth...

[Default0ptions]

I’m still appalled by this quote:

“ For reference, during the Gulf War, between 17 January 1991 and 23 February 1991 the United States led coalition flew over 100,000 sorties, dropping 88,500 tons of bombs. That's what *full support* would look like.”

Appalled and amazed that you think this was good

It would be easy to curse you and all your descendants for that but instead I would like to wish peace and happiness to all your family

[clv101]

Do you get some kind of pleasure from the thousands of deaths that US bombing caused? Are you proud of that?

Proud? What are you on about? I've made the point several times in this discussion that US led military action has killed far more people in recent decades than Russian attacks. Russia may appear brutal in their indiscriminate artillery etc - but US 'precision' bombing led to more deaths in Iraq, before we also consider Afghanistan and Libya. In contrast Russia military action in Georgia, Chechnya and Syria pales.