Ukraine Watch...

[Default0ptions]

What does a ‘win’ look like?

Either Ukraine manages to over run Russia to its eastern most point in Naukan and wipes it off the map altogether,?or there will eventually be a negotiated settlement.

[Default0ptions]

Putting your fingers in your ears and going ‘la la la’ is not an adult response to conflict resolution. Is it.

Nobody on this forum has any influence of the resolution of this conflict.

But your automatic dismissal of any opposing viewpoint is symptomatic of the current zeitgeist that drives this lunatic slaughter ever onwards.

Russia bad for trying to keep its deep water port in Crimea? Spain is pretty fed up with us occupying Gibraltar.

Also slightly off topic but relevant is that America is happily exporting Syrian oil on the pretext of fighting ISIS - but the only place ISIS are active is the area that the US prevented Russia from wiping them out - and then steal the oil.

[Default0ptions]

I’m still intrigued by what you would consider a win in the Ukraine/Russia conflict UE.

This is war. Mother’s sons dying in horrendous pain in the mud.

Thinking you have the moral high ground by refusing to engage at all in negotiations will not make this go away.

We need to fix this rather than fight it.

But yeah, just shout ‘Russian Troll’ at me and you don’t have to think about how your blind acceptance of our western party line is condemning these fathers and sons to a pointless death.

So . . .

Yeah. It really is up to all of us to try to our utmost to sort this out.

You said earlier that it wasn’t up to us to decide policy.

Maybe. But by deliberately ignoring any offering of points of view from other parties you are just shutting down discussion.

Are we all too stupid to have our own opinions? Or do you just have the right to dismiss them?

[dustiswhatweare]

But yeah, just shout ‘Russian Troll’ at me and you don’t have to think about how your blind acceptance of our western party line is condemning these fathers and sons to a pointless death.

Not just fathers and sons though is it, it's an entire population as a 'legitimate' target. Perhaps you ought to join up, you know, get a ringside seat, be a 'hero' of the 'peace keeping' force.

[Default0ptions]

So how do you suggest we try to stop this? Cluster bombs forever?

You are aware that Ukraine has been shelling its own citizens in the Donbas since 2014?

It’s precisely that spectacular level of ignorance about the real world events that drives me to despair

[dustiswhatweare]

So how do you suggest we try to stop this? Cluster bombs forever?

You are aware that Ukraine has been shelling its own citizens in the Donbas since 2014?

It’s precisely that spectacular level of ignorance about the real world events that drives me to despair

Keep driving then.

[Default0ptions]

Keep driving? Do you mean keep the killing going?

I’d love this thing to be over, but it’s not going to be over until both sides realistically engage.

I don’t see how your comment helps in any way.

Keep driving?

That’s the sum total of your position?

[UndercoverElephant]

Thinking you have the moral high ground by refusing to engage at all in negotiations will not make this go away.

I am not responsible for deciding to negotiate or not. I fully support whatever decision Ukraine makes on its own behalf. I will also support the UK continuing to send arms and ammunition to Ukraine for as long as it is requested.

We need to fix this rather than fight it.

Then you (ie Russia) needs to get out of Crimea. Ukraine will not negotiate peace terms so long as Russia continues to occupy Crimea.

Are we all too stupid to have our own opinions? Or do you just have the right to dismiss them?

I have plenty of opinions. But in this case my opinion makes no difference to anybody apart from the readers of this forum, and probably no difference to them either.

In terms of global strategic geo-politics, I believe the best outcome is for Russia to suffer a major strategic defeat. I want the Russian people to be haunted by this for decades, in the hope it may provoke political progress in Russia. The whole war was entirely unnecessary. Ukraine's territorial integrity was not a threat to Russian security. It was only a threat to Russian expansionism. The higher the price paid by the Russian people for this war, the better.

[Default0ptions]

If Russia needs to get out of Crimea how do you justify our continuing occupation of Gibraltar. Which is bitterly resented by Spain?

[Default0ptions]

“ The higher the price paid by the Russian people for this war, the better.”

My god you are a heartless bastard. Is this the fault of the Russian people?

You really have taken the moral low ground with that

All I can do is pray that you never suffer from the decisions of your government that you are powerless to prevent.

I really can’t believe you said that.

[Default0ptions]

And we’re still occupying Gibraltar against the wishes of Spain

Do please explain why this is okay while Crimea is not

[Default0ptions]

And hey ho - The US called cluster bombs a war crime but now they’re fine as long as it’s us using them

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ ... ective-use

“Early on in the war, the White House was asked about allegations that Russia was using cluster bombs, and then-press secretary Jen Psaki said it would be a "war crime" if true.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66134663

[UndercoverElephant]

If Russia needs to get out of Crimea how do you justify our continuing occupation of Gibraltar. Which is bitterly resented by Spain?

"Our"? Please stop pretending you aren't Russian.

Gibraltar has been British for centuries, and the population wants to remain British. It's not complicated.

My god you are a heartless bastard. Is this the fault of the Russian people?

They are doing the fighting, so yes.

I am neither heartless nor a bastard. I want to see cultural change in Russia, so this never happens again. I would very much rather it had not happened at all, but if Russia is allowed territorial gains as a result then it will happen again.

All I can do is pray that you never suffer from the decisions of your government that you are powerless to prevent.

So you admit you are Russian? You will find my attitude to you is somewhat more respectful if you stop pretending to be something you're not (ie not Russian).

[Default0ptions]

I just sent you a PM with my name and address in Shrewsbury. Come and talk to me in real life and maybe we’ll manage to overcome your assumptions

I’m serious. Come talk to me in RL and we can put all these assumptions behind us

I’m also keen to talk about mushrooms!

I don’t know how more honest I can be than being willing to meet up in real life

[Default0ptions]

I do love your argument that Gibraltar has been British for for centuries so it’s okay but you refute the fact that Crimea has been Russian for centuries

Do try to mug up on your history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gibraltar