Ukraine Watch...

[Ralphw2]

Ukraine has been bombing it, at least the refineries and storage terminals, with limited success using home made drones. It is not allowed to use the missiles it has been given. Russia is trying very hard to lose friends and alienate people. It keeps upping the anti trying to provoke direct intervention from a nato country.

However, the front lines have become almost static. An almost impenetrable wall of mines and trenches. Without heavy bombing it is hard to see a breakout, until one side or the other loses the logistics war. This is WWI levels of mindless slaughter, at least on the Russian side. We can’t judge how the logistics war is going, do the endless drone videos of destroyed Russian hardware reflect reality, or are we facing Vietnam where the endless human waves won in the end?

[Default0ptions]

“are we facing Vietnam where the endless human waves won in the end“

Did endless human waves really win in the end? Who for? Who won? What was the point?

Regarding Ukraine: are you saying you want to see endless human waves slaughtered to win? And what do you think you mean by ‘win’?

No one is going to ‘win’ this really are they.

It’s just senseless slaughter that will end in ignominious stalemate and failure.

Bookmark this post and tell me I was wrong five years from now.

[dustiswhatweare]

“are we facing Vietnam where the endless human waves won in the end“

Did endless human waves really win in the end? Who for? Who won? What was the point?

Regarding Ukraine: are you saying you want to see endless human waves slaughtered to win? And what do you think you mean by ‘win’?

No one is going to ‘win’ this really are they.

It’s just senseless slaughter that will end in ignominious stalemate and failure.

Bookmark this post and tell me I was wrong five years from now.

Well tell your bestie Vlad to quit whilst he's behind then.

[Default0ptions]

Seriously - you have no more thoughts than that ad hominem?

[Ralphw2]

It is a serious point. Ukraine was invaded by Russia under the direct, autocratic orders of Putin. It is Putin who has been using mass wave attacks and indiscriminate mass bombing and targeted bombing of civilian infrastructure, as well as torture, execution of civilians and mass deportation and kidnapping of children. (Of course, Ukrainian forces have probably done evil stuff as well, but on a much smaller scale.

The mass death and destruction is entirely the fault of one man and his cronies. He can stop it. If Ukraine sued for peace the deaths and torture and deportations would continue because Putin would see no reason to stop.

I am lamenting the death and destruction, but I 100% know that it is Putin, and Putin alone who can stop it. I fear the only way Ukraine can win is by resorting to the same mass bombings and infrastructure destruction that Russia has employed from the start, so that victory will be over a destroyed and desolate land.

[Default0ptions]

Hmm. I disagree with you about the blame game but there is some crazy spin going on in our media about all this and that spin and the unthinking swallowing of it is what irks me most.

I guess you’re either ignoring the US interference in the 2014 events or you just haven’t taken the trouble to think for yourself and I am so disappointed because I have long regarded and followed this forum, tiny and insignificant as it is on the world stage, as something of a voice of reason.

I have no skin in this game. The Ukraine game. It’s ridiculous to simply refute my posts by crying ‘Russian Troll” because I’m not - and I don’t need to prove it

We could just discuss things on their own merit.

I didn’t think that PowerSwitch could be so intolerant of views adjacent to the mainstream media party line; but it seems I was too hopeful.

I will continue to follow the posts here, and will be much amused when my challenge to Bookmark this Post on the Ukraine thread turns out to be right.

Thank you

Do try to expand your umwelt

[UndercoverElephant]

I have no skin in this game.

Nobody believes you.

[Default0ptions]

Sorry. I forgot free speech and any attempt at open discussion is verboten here. I mean why actually engage in discussion when you can just shut it down because your blinkers don’t allow you to think beyond the confines of the Overton Window

[Default0ptions]

This is a BBC Newsnight video from a while ago:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

[Default0ptions]

I have no skin in this game.

Nobody believes you.

So you think that saying you don’t believe me is sufficient cause to evade any kind of discussion? That’s as ridiculous as a fundamentalist Christian obviating plate tectonics because Usher calculated that the earth is only 6,000 years old

[UndercoverElephant]

I have no skin in this game.

Nobody believes you.

So you think that saying you don’t believe me is sufficient cause to evade any kind of discussion? That’s as ridiculous as a fundamentalist Christian obviating plate tectonics because Usher calculated that the earth is only 6,000 years old

Nobody will accept that analogy either. I'm not interested in talking to you about the war because I believe you are claiming not to be something you are. You are either Russian, or have Russian sympathies, and are pretending not to. This is propaganda, and to engage with you on this topic is to walk into a trap.

[Default0ptions]

“Or have Russian sympathies “

I’ve never denied that I see two sides to any serious discussion of the issue.

Putting your fingers in your ears and going ‘la la la’ is not an adult response to conflict resolution. Is it.

[invalid]

I think it is possible this war might be over sooner than anybody thought.

Not really worth engaging with this blinkered lot seriously

[invalid]

The last few weeks have been pivotal, and this is just one more hammer blow. The Russians are going backwards everywhere Ukraine is attacking, and going forwards nowhere. They have a logistical nightmare on their hands, and Putin is losing control in Russia. People have started planning for what happens when he goes. His army knows it is going to lose the war, and now so do most of the general population. What has become clear very recently is that Russia is unlikely to be able to hold on even to Crimea. There is also no way Putin can survive as leader.

10/10/22

[UndercoverElephant]

Putting your fingers in your ears and going ‘la la la’ is not an adult response to conflict resolution. Is it.

Nobody on this forum has any influence of the resolution of this conflict.