Aircon Electrical Load

[Potemkin Villager]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... con-demand

" National Grid has asked a coal-fired power station in the east Midlands to warm up to cope with extra electricity demand for air conditioning as much of Britain swelters in the heat......... The hot weather is expected to push up demand for power, as households and businesses switch on air conditioning units. Air conditioning accounts for about a fifth of the total electricity used in buildings around the world."

I never realised global electrical demand for aircon was so high and presumably set to ever increase. If folk are desperate enough any means of meeting the increasing demand will be used. It would take a very big increase in renewables to meet this demand for all the extra aircon, not to mention EVs and data centres, without worsening the climate problem.

[kenneal - lagger]

You just have to look at the preponderance of multi storey glass boxes even in places like the Persian Gulf to see why the air conditioning load is so high.

Why bother to design an environmentally conscious building when you can fix any over heating problems with aircon?

[mr brightside]

It's the same with lighting overnight in offices, for whatever reason they'd rather just pay for it than switch the lights off.

[adam2]

Air conditioning is a growing load on UK and overseas grid systems. It is relatively easy to supply this load since there is at least an approximate coincidence between PV production and aircon demand.

As the climate warms, demand for cooling will increase.
Not only for newly installed air conditioning, but also due to greater use of existing equipment. Remember also that fridges and freezers use more energy in hot weather.

[kenneal - lagger]

We can use building design to lower the demand for air con. Indians, Arabs and Persians have been designing buildings for hot climates for hundreds of years so it is just a case of our architects learning new techniques and westerners accepting the new building forms.

Forms such a courtyard houses are a bit large for single family occupancy but would suit multi family occupancy and is a form that I would love to design.

[BritDownUnder]

To me building design is passive heating and good insulation. Thermal mass only is probably not a good idea in the UK as it sets your building temperature close to the annual average air temperature or the soil annual average temperature. In the UK these are pretty low and would make for a miserable 10 to 12 Celsius room temp. The best way to increase this might be to increase insulation and passive heating from solar irradiation.

Just mimicking what the Persians and Arabs have done in their architecture probably won’t work as they have much higher annual average temperatures.

[kenneal - lagger]

You need thermal mass to store the passive solar gain. No thermal mass and you rapidly get overheating.

The requirements for good natural design are orientation and massing of the building, size and orientation of the fenestration, suitable amount of thermal mass and insulation of that mass, and suitable natural ventilation.

With higher temperatures we might well have to mimic civilisations from hotter climes.

[johnny]

You need thermal mass to store the passive solar gain. No thermal mass and you rapidly get overheating.

The requirements for good natural design are orientation and massing of the building, size and orientation of the fenestration, suitable amount of thermal mass and insulation of that mass, and suitable natural ventilation.

With higher temperatures we might well have to mimic civilisations from hotter climes.

I was under the impressions that climate change, changes in the Gulf Stream keeping the UK warm and moist, that these would bring UK temperatures more back in line with the latitude it resides at? Which is cooler in general, rather than warmer?

[BritDownUnder]

You need thermal mass to store the passive solar gain. No thermal mass and you rapidly get overheating.

The requirements for good natural design are orientation and massing of the building, size and orientation of the fenestration, suitable amount of thermal mass and insulation of that mass, and suitable natural ventilation.

With higher temperatures we might well have to mimic civilisations from hotter climes.

I agree that in the UK a thermal mass will need to insulated from the ground to stop heat leaking away into the colder ground. This is something the Middle East did not have to worry about too much.

It would be interesting to see how much the UK's higher than average temperatures are solely due to the Gulf Stream or due to other factors as well like not having large near-polar land masses directly to the North of it.

The Falklands (yes them again) are about the same latitude as London but significantly cooler and drier too.

[adam2]

Concerns in Texas about increased electricity demand due to air conditioning in the present heat wave which is expected to get even hotter over the next few days.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66343133
Fridges and freezers also use more electricity in hot conditions.
Hot weather may also limit the output of some power stations, and reduce the capacity of transformers and cables.

[Potemkin Villager]

I spotted a comment in another place complaining about how long their aircon had to run to achieve their desired level of comfort with the external temp at 40C. It turned out their level of comfort was 18C and they balked at a comment that 25C might be a more reasonable target. The few times I have been in very hot countries it always struck me how ridiculously chilled (less than 20C) many airconned buildings are and how much of a shock it is having to go outside again.

[adam2]

I agree that air conditioning is often set to over cold temperatures.
25 degrees should be acceptable in many situations, especially when the users are presumably dressed for hot weather.
23 degrees is perhaps better.
Lower than that is only needed if substantial physical effort is required of the occupants.

[kenneal - lagger]

If you asked most people to "suffer" 18C in this country during the winter they would be complaining and, if it was at work, threatening strike action.

We work on 18C in winter to 24C in summer indoors but then we are wearing outdoor clothing inside.

[adam2]

It's the same with lighting overnight in offices, for whatever reason they'd rather just pay for it than switch the lights off.

New office lighting installations are required to comply with recent updates to the building regulations that require automatic controls to prevent such waste. This is more complex than it sounds, but progress is being made albeit slowly.
Whilst there is no requirement to retrofit such energy saving controls to most existing office lighting systems, present electricity prices are a powerful incentive to voluntarily fit such systems.
And of course most newish office lighting is now LED, still a waste if used needlessly, but a lesser waste than fluorescent.

[BritDownUnder]

I was watching a YouTube video about Saudi Arabia and its (hopefully) impending collapse and it said that 70% of their electrical load is for desalination and 20% for air con. The main thrust of this video was that they are running out of 'fossil' water and may soon starve. Oh dear - couldn't happen to a nicer country.

It's probably a big load in Australia too but could not speculate how much. Depends on the temperature outside which is probably more variable that Saudi. I was in one rental which the aircon reduced the temperature to 36C down from 45C outside but this place had no insulation and a flat roof. Now with solar I care little how much it takes to cool but have a much better place with insulation and a pitched roof with the solar panels doing their bit to reduce the heat coming through the roof.