Companies going bankrupt/into administration

[kenneal - lagger]

Should free speech include the ability to tell outright lies or even slight porkies which establish an alternative reality? Should people like Putin and his spokespeople and followers and Trump and co be able to create an environment where invasion and insurrection are justified? Previous management said no so Trump was banned. Current management seems to be saying yes. This will destabilise many countries, the US included, which will destabilise the whole world possibly as far as creating a world war.

[Stumuz2]

Should free speech include the ability to tell outright lies or even slight porkies which establish an alternative reality?

Ken, you ask some deep questions there!

At the moment telling lies which alters reality does have some legal safeguards. If you lie and cause damage then remedies are available in some circumstances. But on your deeper philosophical point if someone lives in an alternative reality, then that is their reality.

Should people like Putin and his spokespeople and followers and Trump and co be able to create an environment where invasion and insurrection are justified?

I think you are conflating two different things. Putin has created a false narrative which most Russian people have accepted. Job done.
Trump, on the other hand has tried to create a narrative, by mixing fact and fiction, which only 50% have accepted. As long as the fiction part is not criminal, then that is free speech. It's a problem that has been with us forever.
What is new is the amount and speed of dissemination. We will need to be discerning in our consumption on an individual level.

Previous management said no so Trump was banned. Current management seems to be saying yes. This will destabilise many countries, the US included, which will destabilise the whole world possibly as far as creating a world war.

The whole world is destabilising by itself. Petro dollar coming to an end. New alliances created daily. As Greer has written many times, the US will split into three in the near future. The divisions are two wide. Add into the mix the fact that the first time in human history, the global currency supply has been debased to the point of hyperinflation. The countries holding the geopolitical cards are the ones which are commodity and resource rich. Get ready for fast and dramatic change. Reducing freedom of speech will not help.

[mr brightside]

Should free speech include the ability to tell outright lies or even slight porkies which establish an alternative reality?

That is a big question, one of the biggest of the DM era.

But on your deeper philosophical point if someone lives in an alternative reality, then that is their reality.

That is what i was saying to UE the other week, there isn't one truth, up to a certain point, everyone has their own truth. And yes, that's my truth.

[clv101]

That is what i was saying to UE the other week, there isn't one truth, up to a certain point, everyone has their own truth. And yes, that's my truth.

You say "everyone has their own truth", but isn't that just a modern, fancy way to avoid saying that some people are simply wrong. A lot of the time when folk calm to have have their 'own truth' I think it's more likely that they are just wrong but don't want to admit it to themselves or can't be arsed to do the work to educate themselves.

[anotherexlurker]

The problem with the "Truth" is that in most cases the basis on which the truth is calculated is based on incomplete understanding and various levels of subjectivity and it is foolish to believe that any of us have the "One Truth". Outside of a mathematical formula what is actually the "Truth" and even using a mathematical formula you are more likely to have calculated the probability of something being true rather than an exact fact.

Take any scientific field and multiple experts that have studied the field for decades being presented with the same info/data can come to different conclusions on what is the "Truth" , most of the time what us humans regard as the truth is only based on a subjective opinion rather than an exact fact.

I try to base my views on what I regard as having the highest probability of being true at that time (our understanding and opinions change over time) and give different info sources a different weighting based on my interpretation of there previous record. Simple examples on this forum are that I give a high weighting to Adams comments on electrical matters and Kens comments on insulation matters, but I give a very low weighting to UE's political outlook, but would give him a high weighting on what plants to eat.

In real life I know various people that I regard as being intelligent and knowledgeable and yet on some subjects I would take their view as being a virtual fact and for the same person/s I would dismiss their view on other subjects as utter tosh. As I hopefully do not suffer from a messiah complex it is reasonable to assume that some of my "Truths" are not actually the truth at all.

[mr brightside]

I try to empty my cup as much as possible these days; the Tao than can be explained is not the Tao.

[adam2]

Please keep on the stated topic which is Companies going bankrupt/into administration.

This is the place for factual reports about the above, and for RELEVANT replies to and comments on such reports. This is not the place
for argueing about different versions of the truth.

[Potemkin Villager]

This is the place for factual reports about the above, and for RELEVANT replies to and comments on such reports. This is not the place
for argueing about different versions of the truth.

I am not sure if this is true or not.

Can you persuade me by logical argument rather than dogmatic assertion?

[adam2]

Looks as tough flybe are bust or going bust. They have stopped operating today. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64436500

[kenneal - lagger]

I try to empty my cup as much as possible these days; the Tao than can be explained is not the Tao.

Is that so you can see what is happening in the tea leaves???

Flybee has officially stopped trading now.

[Mark]

Seems like Twitter is destined to become just an echo chamber for right wing nut jobs ?

They're only right wing nut jobs, if you are a left wing nut job

As predicted....

Dr Jan Rosenow
@janrosenow
How Twitter has changed. In the past I would get responses engaging with my content from a range of perspectives. Now almost all responses I get are from accounts bashing clean energy and climate policy, often with the blue tick.

This tweet is an example of that.
https://twitter.com/janrosenow/status/1 ... 19460?s=20

[kenneal - lagger]

It's probably a tax efficient "investment". A fiddle by any other name!

[BritDownUnder]

It was on the BBC News this morning (thank God the Tour de France has now ended and we have got the bad news from the UK back again) that Wilko is teetering with cashflow problems.

[johnny]

You say "everyone has their own truth", but isn't that just a modern, fancy way to avoid saying that some people are simply wrong. A lot of the time when folk calm to have have their 'own truth' I think it's more likely that they are just wrong but don't want to admit it to themselves or can't be arsed to do the work to educate themselves.

Wow if that doesn't nail down the issue with the vast majority of peak oil enthusiasts back in the day. I've never seen it put quite that succinctly, but there it is, and it works 5X5.

[clv101]

Seems Wilko have reached the end of the line. This will leave a pretty big hole on many high streets, further pulling down commercial property prices.

I wonder how abandoned and cheap the high street has to be before Amaz0n sweeps in and buys up prime, city centre real estate for pennies. I mean, eventually, in a lower energy, simpler economy, town centers must become relatively valuable again?