Ukraine Watch...

[PS_RalphW]

Looking like it was an S300 air defense missile with an effective range of. 100km. Ukraine was using S300 yesterday to intercept Russian missiles. Nearest Russian held territory is over 200km.

[clv101]

"WASHINGTON (AP) — US officials: Initial findings suggest missile that hit Poland was fired by Ukrainian forces at incoming Russian missile."

Oops!

[clv101]

President of Poland:
- no indication it was an attack on Poland
- no evidence missile was launched by Russia
- high probability it was fired by Ukrainian Air Defence
- it may be not necessary for NATO article 4
- there will be a reinforced presence of allied air defence

So does NATO get to attack Ukraine now?

[Stumuz2]

So does NATO get to attack Ukraine now?

'Cause not!
This is a battle of resources, not logic.

Do we really want the Chinese and Ruskies to have all the resources?

[clv101]

So does NATO get to attack Ukraine now?

'Cause not!
This is a battle of resources, not logic.

Do we really want the Chinese and Ruskies to have all the resources?

Shhh, don't say the quiet part out loud.

[kenneal - lagger]

Russia has not spare capacity to respond.

We are incrementally moving towards nuclear conflict.

And who is driving that? Russia. Russia has been driving this ever since they invaded Ukraine in Putin's mad grab to reinstate the Soviet Empire. It is yet more Brinkmanship and blackmail from Putin daring the west to stand against him in tha face of Russia's nuclear arsenal.

Putin and his Russian poodles have been threatening nuclear war ever since the invasion started. They got even louder as western help saw Ukraine turn the tide. It is noticable that they have recently got a lot quieter as their bluff has been well and truly called. Russians only appreciate strength and the strength and resolve of the west has shut them up.

The West should publicly tell Putin and Russia that we will support Ukraine up to the Russian border, the pre 2014 border, and no further UNLESS Russia continues to shell Ukraine from Russia in which case we will support Ukraine with HIMARS and ATACMS for use in counter battery and troop concentration fire as far into Russia as it takes.

[clv101]

From Glenn Greenwald

US funding for war in Ukraine in 9 months:
Mar: $ 13.6 billion
May: $ 40b
Nov: $ 37.7b: Biden's new request
That $ 91.3 billion is 33% more than Russia's *total military spending for the year*
It's *double* the US's average annual expenditure for its own war in Afghanistan

It's going to top $100bn, a vast amount of money to pour into this proxy war with Russia - and a huge pay day for US defence companies.

[clv101]

AP actually issued a correction to their Russian missile story:

WARSAW, Poland — In earlier versions of a story published November 15, 2022, The Associated Press reported erroneously, based on information from a senior American intelligence official who spoke on condition of anonymity, that Russian missiles had crossed into Poland and killed two people. Subsequent reporting showed that the missiles were Russian-made and most likely fired by Ukraine in defense against a Russian attack.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Question remains was the "senior American intelligence official" simply wrong or were they intentionally pinning it on Russia (by default) to boost the "Russia bad" narrative?

[Catweazle]

From Glenn Greenwald

US funding for war in Ukraine in 9 months:
Mar: $ 13.6 billion
May: $ 40b
Nov: $ 37.7b: Biden's new request
That $ 91.3 billion is 33% more than Russia's *total military spending for the year*
It's *double* the US's average annual expenditure for its own war in Afghanistan

It's going to top $100bn, a vast amount of money to pour into this proxy war with Russia - and a huge pay day for US defence companies.

Interesting how so much media coverage has been of plucky Ukrainians fighting Russians with home-made drone weapons. The amount of high-tech weapons used must be huge.

[clv101]

Indeed, you'd have to be a fool not to recognise this as a war between the US and Russia.

[UndercoverElephant]

It's going to top $100bn, a vast amount of money to pour into this proxy war with Russia - and a huge pay day for US defence companies.

Puts the "mini budget" into some perspective though. Liz Truss managed to cost the UK well over one third of that amount in one day, for nothing, and for no reason.

[UndercoverElephant]

Indeed, you'd have to be a fool not to recognise this as a war between the US and Russia.

It is really a war between the entire western world and Russia. It isn't even just NATO -- Australia has sent weapons to Ukraine, even New Zealand has made contributions to NATO's Ukraine trust fund. That is quite different to some other wars the US has been involved in. Usually there is some murky US-specific motive, and support across the rest of the world has been patchy at best. This time the opponent is almost isolated, only receiving help from a few other pariah states - Iran, North Korea and Belarus. And Iranians are only helping militarily, while politically distancing themselves from Moscow.

[Vortex2]

It's going to top $100bn, a vast amount of money to pour into this proxy war with Russia - and a huge pay day for US defence companies.

Puts the "mini budget" into some perspective though. Liz Truss managed to cost the UK well over one third of that amount in one day, for nothing, and for no reason.

£37 bn for Test and Trace ... ho, humm ....

We need a second version to trace where that money went.

[invalid]

And as the US estimate 100000 dead on each side, if the Russians are said to be doing so badly, how are the Ukrainians doing?

[dustiswhatweare]

The russians are doing a bit rubbish matey.