What preparations (if any) have you made to deal with blackouts?

[johnny]

It's far better that our kids learn to live with the thermostat turned down a few degrees so that millions of kids worldwide can live without being flooded out or blown to bits or washed away by torrential rain, hurricanes or sea level rise.

Turning down the thermostat a few degrees doesn't appear to match the rhetoric of people freezing to death, being bankrupted by costs of heating (and that is just this winter) and the various oother doom angles that appear quite popular related to poor government stewardship of national resources.

And what does that poor stewardship have to do with kids everywhere else? Let alone the human urge to foul their nest in general? Some small country like the UK could vanish into the sea like Atlantis and it wouldn't change the greater course that humanity has set for itself.

The random psycho stuff must include the politicians who take the bribes from the fossil fuel companies and vote against climate change mitigation measures, and their apologists and supporters, which mean that the world's CO2 emissions are still rising at an alarming rate. A bit of temporary discomfort which saves emissions in the future is something which we just have to put up with.

I say down with the fossil fuel companies. Hard to accomplish of course, considering that it is one of the few industries demonized left and right, hounded by the media for their contribution to the pollution of the biosphere...and then.....people go out and hand over hard earned dollars for their products. For heat and electricity and fuel. Funny how that works...people talking big talk, and then forking over that cash like addicted cocaine addicts. Almost makes you wonder if they believe a word they say when complaining about said fossil fuel companies?

My thought is that if you can get people to change their behavior, you can change the world. But if you find yourself talking, and people not acting, well, that is a collectice choice not agreeing with yours. Enjoy the feeling that some temporary discomfort might make you feel like you are doing your part I suppose? You really think that temporary discomfort is the level of individual sacrifice to stop CO2 rising is the sum of it? I think that if you shut down most of the world economy that is the minimum required to stop the next expected continuing rise in atmospheric CO2. Do you seriously disagree? And this is an honest question, if your priority is stopping CO2 rise as quickly as possible, impoverishing most everyong would seem to be a necessary action to keep bad things from happening. With or without the Isles being above sea level.

[kenneal - lagger]

You're talking rubbish again Johnny/RGR.

People buy fossil fuel because they have no option in the main. They all live in houses which have a fossil fuel supply or no fuel supply. Most houses built now don't even have a chimney so they can't easily switch to wood if they could get it.

The fossil fuel companies and the building companies have been bringing their financial pressure on the government to stop them introducing better insulation standards even as Russia holds the west to ransome by withholding gas and oil supplies. Even the strategic benefit of using far less fuel holds no sway with a government and economic system built on the extravagant use of fossil fuel and energy.

If we instantly started producing fracked gas tomorrow the price of gas wouldn't go down because the fracking companies would charge us world market rates and pocket the vast profits. Those world rates wouldn't go down because we couldn't produce enough quickly enough and we don't have the facilities to export enough to affect world market rates

Multi national fossil fuel companies with their control over governments have got us into the mess and are quite happy to profit from it. Their apologists, probably with shares in the sector, are quite happy to spread the lies and propaganda as they are profiting too.

I am not too bothered as all my heating is by wood and most of the three years supply that I have on site or just the other side of the fence is or was free. What is the other side of the fence is only practically accessible from my land. I do rely on a diesel generator for much of my electricity but I can and will reduce that usage and when PV becomes available again I will then go over to renewables and probably buy an electric car as well.

[johnny]

You're talking rubbish again Johnny/RGR.

Well, some of it wasn't rubbish, it was quite factual, and I'm betting you are just objecting to the hard nosed perspective involved.

People buy fossil fuel because they have no option in the main.

Well, then if you start with this, then EVERYTHING I said was true. Which logically then leads to my conclusion, which is the level of impoverishment to change the rate of atmospheric CO2 increase is not just high, but astronomical. Because the choice is to change one's behavior. Just as I said. I never said any of us would like it, let alone that it was even possible.

The future is Amish.

They all live in houses which have a fossil fuel supply or no fuel supply. Most houses built now don't even have a chimney so they can't easily switch to wood if they could get it.

So what? I didn't even imply that people would like the changes necessary, or that it was possible.

The fossil fuel companies and the building companies have been bringing their financial pressure on the government to stop them introducing better insulation standards even as Russia holds the west to ransome by withholding gas and oil supplies. Even the strategic benefit of using far less fuel holds no sway with a government and economic system built on the extravagant use of fossil fuel and energy.

Good thing that Hubbert was right, and extraction of a non-renewable resource has a beginning of 0, an end at 0, and a peak somewhere in the middle. The current environment of non-renewable extraction will arrive at just the point Hubbert claimed, regardless of what is happening today or if we like it or not. The entire argument is exactly why peak oilers latched onto the idea in the first place.

If we instantly started producing fracked gas tomorrow the price of gas wouldn't go down because the fracking companies would charge us world market rates and pocket the vast profits. Those world rates wouldn't go down because we couldn't produce enough quickly enough and we don't have the facilities to export enough to affect world market rates

I've already answered this, I recommend government management with revenues decided upon by the government who wants the resources for their people rather than profit. Did the people not receive some form of compensation for North Sea development? I recommend the people rise up and demand the reources for a fair price for themselves, as individuals can, and have, done in the Colonies.

I am not too bothered as all my heating is by wood and most of the three years supply that I have on site or just the other side of the fence is or was free. What is the other side of the fence is only practically accessible from my land. I do rely on a diesel generator for much of my electricity but I can and will reduce that usage and when PV becomes available again I will then go over to renewables and probably buy an electric car as well.

Well good for you! My own natural gas supply works for me. But as I said, you want to change the world, you change human behavior. Not just yours or mine.

[Vortex2]

The current environment of non-renewable extraction will arrive at just the point Hubbert claimed, regardless of what is happening today or if we like it or not. The entire argument is exactly why peak oilers latched onto the idea in the first place.

The Peak Oilers were, in essence, totally correct.

They however forgot to note that we live in a complex (and complicated) adaptive world which has muddied the waters.

That said, the current energy disaster in Europe has convinced me that one day (maybe in the far future) the wheels of the global economy will come off.

Fossil fuels at some point will decline precipitously, whilst 95% of a large high tech society relies on them.

There will be no Putin to call on the phone to apologise to .. and to request he turns the gas back on.

Unless a MASSIVE and prompt investment in renewables and also nuclear takes place, there will be trouble ahead.

The 'tipping point' could happen almost overnight, which is quite scary.

I'm not sure that having a basement full of canned baked beans .. or guns and ammo ... would help in such a situation.

[johnny]

The current environment of non-renewable extraction will arrive at just the point Hubbert claimed, regardless of what is happening today or if we like it or not. The entire argument is exactly why peak oilers latched onto the idea in the first place.

The Peak Oilers were, in essence, totally correct.

Hubbert was correct in his logical form of non-renewable resource extraction. And included the statement of one or multiple peaks could happen along the way. Perhaps the Happy McDoomsters missed that part?

The reason WHY Hubbert's estimates seemed to work at first was because of 2 things, 1) the world was in a stable configuration of exploring for and finding a common geologic feature (discrete reservoirs), and 2) he had inadvertantly taken advantage of what was later to be called "discovery process" modeling. Sometimes in the modern era the less well researched proponents call it "it must be discovered before it can be produced", demonstrating that their research on the topic is quite lacking. Because it isn't true, you can call it even before you discover it. Discovery process modeling was put forth right after Hubbert released his 1956 seminal work by Arps and Roberts using the DJ Basin in Colorado as the first operative example.

Once the peak oil problem was solved in the modern era, it just didn't seem to matter. Prices were low, the US had done something that no one believed was possible, and it was a different world. No one is interested in the answer of when anymore. I am of the belief that one day the question will again be of interest, and the need for that answer will come again.

That said, the current energy disaster in Europe has convinced me that one day (maybe in the far future) the wheels of the global economy will come off.

Sure. If folks had just stuck with that as a thought and not tried to blame it on oil, it is a reasonable thought. Has been since the Cold War. No need to worry about all of them along the way though, might make someone age prematurely.

Fossil fuels at some point will decline precipitously, whilst 95% of a large high tech society relies on them.

Sounds bad. Heard it before. Colin Campbell said we should be producing what, 30 mmbbl/d right about now? Much precipitous is called, few appear.

The 'tipping point' could happen almost overnight, which is quite scary.

Always has been. Did they make you UK youngsters hide under desks while waiting for the nukes to go off overhead? Quite scary indeed, and hasn't changed much since then.

I'm not sure that having a basement full of canned baked beans .. or guns and ammo ... would help in such a situation.

Yup. Not sure my life would have been better being afraid since back in the 60's when we could all die overnight. Not sure it would be better doing it now. Life is too short to pretend that the consequences of it aren't lethal.

[Vortex2]

Did they make you

UK youngsters hide under desks while waiting for the nukes to go off overhead?

Not at school - but we all worried about The Bomb.
Early in my marriage, for a few years, I always has a "WW3 First Aid Kt" in the car.
Never needed it for a nuclear attack .. but the flash burn spray saved the day when my wife was badly burned when we were a long way away from a hospital.
She recovered with NO scarring.

[johnny]

Did they make you

UK youngsters hide under desks while waiting for the nukes to go off overhead?

Not at school - but we all worried about The Bomb.
Early in my marriage, for a few years, I always has a "WW3 First Aid Kt" in the car.
Never needed it for a nuclear attack .. but the flash burn spray saved the day when my wife was badly burned when we were a long way away from a hospital.
She recovered with NO scarring.

Good to hear. And I've got 2 old domestic gas wells on the property, to cook and heat with, and generate electricity, when some run of the mill interruption of service shows up. Seems to me that basic common sense things, as you desscribe, are of far more value than those folks who take it to an extreme and become doomers and Amish wanna-be's and whatnot. I mean really, how to deal with blackouts? How about sleep when it's dark and wait for the Sun to come up the next morning?

[Vortex2]

I mean really, how to deal with blackouts?

I'm not keen on darkness and not having at least reading lamps and a radio/CDplayer/DVDplayer available for a few hours.

A stack of 12-volt batteries and couple of invertors will keep us sane.

For major blackouts we can run up a cheap 2600 watt petrol generator for a few hours a week to supply the washing machne, microwave oven etc.

TBH For blackouts lasting say 3 days or more, we would be looking at stringing up barbed wire around the place to keep the crazed zombies out.

[adam2]

For pre planned 3 hour rota power cuts, nothing elaborate is required. Lighting for 3 hours and battery power for news sources and entertainments. Possibly an off grid means of heating and cooking, though waiting for the power to come back on is simpler.

For longer power cuts such as might result from extreme weather or even enemy action then preparing in more detail is prudent. A generator could be very useful. As would be a battery charging PV system.

[johnny]

I mean really, how to deal with blackouts?
I'm not keen on darkness and not having at least reading lamps and a radio/CDplayer/DVDplayer available for a few hours.
A stack of 12-volt batteries and couple of invertors will keep us sane.

Sure. When it happened on the old farm I loved the candlelight dinners and cooking the food on the woodstove. That was before the wells were drilled. I still can remember when granddad got one of those new fangled electric pumps to bring up water from the water well, it was all quite exciting, the new technology. But nowadays I've been citified, and the wife was never a country mouse, and the kids are certainly full blown new age whatever they are called.

For major blackouts we can run up a cheap 2600 watt petrol generator for a few hours a week to supply the washing machne, microwave oven etc.
TBH For blackouts lasting say 3 days or more, we would be looking at stringing up barbed wire around the place to keep the crazed zombies out.

Sounds like you don't live in a rural enough area? At the old house we can see the road running by the place both east and west at a range of 300m or so. Just need a fast firing hi-power and zombies be gone!! You can just about defend the entire valley with 2 people shooting out the kitchen window on the west side, and a bedroom window on the east.

[Vortex2]

Sounds like you don't live in a rural enough area? At the old house we can see the road running by the place both east and west at a range of 300m or so. Just need a fast firing hi-power and zombies be gone!! You can just about defend the entire valley with 2 people shooting out the kitchen window on the west side, and a bedroom window on the east.

We live in a small eco-house in a field, near a few cottages - but small towns are within a couple of miles and Birmingham (a big city) is maybe 1 hour by car away.

When/if the city fails I expect roaming gangs of townies scouring the rural areas for whatever they can find.

Most of us do not have access to guns in the UK .. except the city low-lives who have all sorts.

[adam2]

Please keep on the subject of "what preparations have you made for power cuts" Including both 3 hour rota power cuts and much longer breakdowns.
We have other threads in which to discuss the merits or otherwise of fracking, or the collapse of law and order, Or firearms for defence. Or general
TEOTWAWKI. THIS THREAD IS FOR POWER CUT PREPS.

Further off topic remarks will be deleted, and existing off topic remarks may be deleted.

[BritDownUnder]

I would recommend that people in the UK invest in a house battery that could be grid connected with a few emergency circuits that should last three hours or get an off grid battery system. Off grid could probably take many forms from simple 12V DC to a full single or even three phase AC inverter system.

You could get some FLEABay solar powered external lights that could light up the outside of your place to make it a bit less appealing to thieves, or at least lend them the courtesy of seeing what they are stealing. As the lights will probably go off just after sunset the solar lights will probably have some charge in them.

In Australia I am considering getting a grid tied battery system and possibly a second off grid system to power the shed and garage.

[johnny]

I would recommend that people in the UK invest in a house battery that could be grid connected with a few emergency circuits that should last three hours or get an off grid battery system. Off grid could probably take many forms from simple 12V DC to a full single or even three phase AC inverter system.

You could get some FLEABay solar powered external lights that could light up the outside of your place to make it a bit less appealing to thieves, or at least lend them the courtesy of seeing what they are stealing. As the lights will probably go off just after sunset the solar lights will probably have some charge in them.

In Australia I am considering getting a grid tied battery system and possibly a second off grid system to power the shed and garage.

And I would recommend moving to a place where the overlords allow you to access and utilize your own mineral rights in order to make up for their incompetence in managing the mineral resources of the people. Ergo, let the individual people manage them.

[Catweazle]

And I would recommend moving to a place where the overlords allow you to access and utilize your own mineral rights in order to make up for their incompetence in managing the mineral resources of the people. Ergo, let the individual people manage them.

Would you encourage people to just dig up fossil fuels and burn them as they see fit ?