Nuclear War

[kenneal - lagger]

I would think that the answer to Russian nuclear use in Ukraine would be a one off devastating conventional (Shock and Awe) NATO air attack on Russian assets in Ukraine which would destroy the Russians ability to fight any further. It would probably include bringing down the Kerch Bridge. They would knock out communications first and then bomb the sh*t out of the Russians for the rest of the day and then just sit back and see what Putin does in answer to that.

[adam2]

The risk of putin using nuclear weapons does seem to be increasing. This news report for example sounds rather concerning.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62981289

If putin does go nuclear, I would support a devastating but NON NUCLEAR response, as has been suggested by others.

The destruction of all Russian naval vessels that are outside of russian territory.
The destruction of all russian military aircraft outside of russian territory.
The impounding and confiscation of all russian civilian aircraft and ships.

[adam2]

There seems to be a rowing realisation that putin could resort to nuclear weapons, this report for example.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63016675

How many nuclear fallout shelters does the UK have for civilians ? None AFAIK.

[BritDownUnder]

Some commercial buildings in towns may have basements. Underground railway stations and parking garages may be of some use for fallout but probably not pressure rated. The Royal Observer Corps monitoring posts are presumably derelict or sold off. Not sure if the regional ROC bunkers are still functioning. I think Finland has shelters with some over pressure rating (9 psi or 9 bar I forget which) for 75% of the people living in cities and Norway 90%. Finland bunker link here.

Can't say I am worried in Australia. If they targeted the next larger town which is 45 km away a 1 megaton bomb would have little effect on us. I suppose they could target the electrical grid for better effect but it would take at least 500 bombs to seriously damage Australia. I doubt they have the bombs or the missiles to do that.

Once again instead of Biden saying "Don't Don't Don't" he needs to be saying to Putin if you do X then we will do Y and leave them under no illusion what will happen. I think probably a statement saying the after the next nuclear threat is issued from Russia then to say the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty is null and void and begin a general proliferation of nuclear weapons throughout the Western World including Ukraine.

[Vortex2]

How many nuclear fallout shelters does the UK have for civilians ? None AFAIK.

None, as you say.

However there are MANY military & government bunkers, although many have been sold off over the years.

Some decent, many not.

Each county has two : one at the council building, one at the other end of the county.

Three used to be 999 working Royal Observer Corps posts .. although IIRC around 1200 were constructed. All gone now.

Military bases still have major bunkers.

There are around 27 SRCs .. large bunkers, many now sold off as computer centres etc.

There are tons of places under London.

Even today there will be 1000s of places available for The Elite.

(I wonder if they are being given an urgent Spring Clean?)

[Catweazle]

Colin Furze built a useful bunker / utility room in his back garden, and later got retrospective planning permission for it, as well as for tunnels to his house.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UKNajCgpEs&t=6s

[kenneal - lagger]

I wonder how many of the deep basements recently constructed under London houses are nuclear shelters in disguise?

[adam2]

I wonder how many of the deep basements recently constructed under London houses are nuclear shelters in disguise?

A lot I suspect, though bunkers are now a bit last year. "Contingency rooms" is the new term.

[clv101]

I think probably a statement saying the after the next nuclear threat is issued from Russia then to say the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty is null and void and begin a general proliferation of nuclear weapons throughout the Western World including Ukraine.

That's really not a good idea. A return to a provocative nuclear arms race is the last thing the human civilisation need to be investing in right now.

[BritDownUnder]

I think probably a statement saying the after the next nuclear threat is issued from Russia then to say the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty is null and void and begin a general proliferation of nuclear weapons throughout the Western World including Ukraine.

That's really not a good idea. A return to a provocative nuclear arms race is the last thing the human civilisation need to be investing in right now.

Disagree. The Russian rhetoric needs to be answered.

If all Russia's neighbours had nukes and Russian troops were nuked as soon as they crossed the border as per Russian defence policy then the Kremlin might pause for thought.

I think nuclear proliferation will kick off in earnest once Iran gets the bomb. Can't wait for Australia to get them. Will be very good for keeping China in check too.

[kenneal - lagger]

We should tell Russia that if they use a nuke in Ukraine that NATO will use their air power to devastate Russian troops and infrastructure in Ukraine using conventional weapons. If they use a nuke in any NATO country that NATO will respond in kind and proportion in Russia itself. We should give them a list of towns near the border which are used as transport hubs to support the war in Ukraine and told that they should evacuate them before we nuke whatever number of towns that the Russians have attacked in proportion to the attack in NATO. Russia already knows the accuracy with which our weapons can be used from the devastation of their command and logistics structure that Ukraine has wrought on them so they know what NATO could do using the longer range weapons that we possess.

It will be up to Russia then to decide if they want to start a nuclear war.

[Tarrel]

How many nuclear fallout shelters does the UK have for civilians ? None AFAIK.

None, as you say.

However there are MANY military & government bunkers, although many have been sold off over the years.

Some decent, many not.

Each county has two : one at the council building, one at the other end of the county.

Three used to be 999 working Royal Observer Corps posts .. although IIRC around 1200 were constructed. All gone now.

Military bases still have major bunkers.

There are around 27 SRCs .. large bunkers, many now sold off as computer centres etc.

There are tons of places under London.

Even today there will be 1000s of places available for The Elite.

(I wonder if they are being given an urgent Spring Clean?)

I don't know about the shelters but shortly after the invasion the partner of a friend of ours, who had been doing some civil engineering contract work up at Wick, was urgently asked with this team to head down to Campbelltown Airport (was RAF Machrihanish) for some "refurbishment work". The runway there is 3 km long and it was nominated as a forward operating base for NATO's SACEUR during the Cold War.

[adam2]

"The battlefield setback prompted the Chechen leader and hardline Moscow ally, Ramzan Kadyrov, to comment that Russia should consider using low-yield nuclear weapons in the face of such defeats".

As reported on BBC news 01/10/2019. Full news report here.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63102220

[Mark]

A local Parish Council has called a meeting to discuss preps for a nuclear attack and wants to create a civil defence team and a register of people with First Aid training etc...

Initially thought this might just be an 'enthusiastic' local initiative, but apparently the instruction had come from the Local Authority...
Are people in other areas seeing similar ??

[BritDownUnder]

I think this is probably a good idea to consider.
As far as I know there have been no such moves Down Under so far.