Is the mini budget a recipe for doom?

[Mark]

Don't be poor, don't be sick, don't be a student, don't be old, don't be cold, don't be disabled, don't be hungry, don't be struggling with your rent...
It's going to be a long winter...., there's nothing down for you....

[clv101]

Stepping back a bit, I don't really get it - from *their* point of view. If you are already wealthy, a million pound house, a £150k+ annual income, sizeable investments etc... WHY would you want to be a bit richer still, at the expense of society around you? Surely it's in the millionaire's personal interest for crime to be low, for the health and education services to be well funded, for the waterways to be clean and for wildlife to be flourishing etc?

I don't get how the majority think the further enrichment of the top decide is a good idea, but I don't even get why the millionaires think it's a great idea.

[BritDownUnder]

Don't be poor, don't be sick, don't be a student, don't be old, don't be cold, don't be disabled, don't be hungry, don't be struggling with your rent...
It's going to be a long winter...., there's nothing down for you....

Shhhh! Don't tell Joe Biden. He might steal it for his speeches.

[kenneal - lagger]

I don't think that Liz Truss listens to anyone but the people who voted for her and those people are a very limited section of the community. People like me, who are what was once called One Nation Tories, left the party quite a while ago leaving the dinosaurs in charge. The older, wealthier, white people who are largely the membership of the Tory Party now in my area anyway live in a bubble and have little idea or appreciation of or even concern for other people's lives.

I have spoken to a local "environmentalist" who advises the government on environmental matters and is/was a contributor to Bloomberg who is quite convinced that we have an unlimited source of energy in the sky which can support unlimited growth into the future! He has no concept of Net Energy nor EROEI nor of Limits to Growth: they are rubbish as far as he is concerned and David Attenborough is the mad one with his thought that only economists and mad men believe in infinite growth in a finite environment. If we run out of one material we can replace it with another ad infinitum as the earth is boundless!! That is the background to Liz Truss government policy.

[Potemkin Villager]

If we run out of one material we can replace it with another ad infinitum as the earth is boundless!! That is the background to Liz Truss government policy.

This has a worryingly focussed zealous religious ring to it. Such are the things that cults are made of.

[UndercoverElephant]

I don't get how the majority think the further enrichment of the top decide is a good idea, but I don't even get why the millionaires think it's a great idea.

Some of them are just totally focused on getting ever richer -- it is what gives their life meaning, bizarre though that may seem. Quite a lot of them don't think it is such a great idea, but aren't making the decisions. And for some it is ideological.

Truss and Kwarteng appear to actually believe it makes economic sense -- that the reason the UK can't balance its books is because we've implemented the wrong strategy for generating growth. Which is a case of insane (literally) ideology taking precedence over both scientific fact and economic orthodoxy. Most economists think tax cuts need to be funded, which is why sterling is crashing.

[UndercoverElephant]

I don't think that Liz Truss listens to anyone but the people who voted for her and those people are a very limited section of the community. People like me, who are what was once called One Nation Tories, left the party quite a while ago leaving the dinosaurs in charge. The older, wealthier, white people who are largely the membership of the Tory Party now in my area anyway live in a bubble and have little idea or appreciation of or even concern for other people's lives.

I have spoken to a local "environmentalist" who advises the government on environmental matters and is/was a contributor to Bloomberg who is quite convinced that we have an unlimited source of energy in the sky which can support unlimited growth into the future! He has no concept of Net Energy nor EROEI nor of Limits to Growth: they are rubbish as far as he is concerned and David Attenborough is the mad one with his thought that only economists and mad men believe in infinite growth in a finite environment. If we run out of one material we can replace it with another ad infinitum as the earth is boundless!! That is the background to Liz Truss government policy.

Yes. This is the only "rational" explanation, and it is completely detached from scientific reality.

[RevdTess]

This might be the only thing that's ever united this forum

[anotherexlurker]

I am yet another ex Tory party member and activist , I left years ago to support Farage over leaving the EU.

I can't support or defend the mini economic suicide budget . Contrary to the believe of some on the left most Tory voters are not rich and do not support the idea that the poorest in society should be thrown under the bus.

Even if removing the 45% tax rate would actually benefit the country in the long term (not convinced myself) , I would much prefer for any tax help to benefit the lowest paid, added to the bankers bonus limit being increased its at best a PR disaster.

I will probably benefit from the reduction in stamp duty , but I do not think that is going to have much effect on the housing market as
a) its not time limited so no need for anyone to rush to take advantage
b) even a 1% increase in mortgage rates is approx £2500 increase in annual payments on a £250,0000 mortgage in year one alone and the likely outcome of this budget is at least 1% increase over and above what would otherwise have been required.

I have seen it reported that the planning process for onshore wind farms has been/will be relaxed , if that is true then I can support that.

[kenneal - lagger]

Any reduction in stamp duty will soon be outweighed by an increase in house prices because the National House Builders have an effective monopoly on land supply and rates of building. They use that, together with the banks supplying the money, to constantly increase house prices no matter what the demand. There is an effective, even if informal, cartel in housing supply in the UK which ensures high house prices. low quality and high profit margins for NHBs and the banks.

The increase in *ankers bonuses will also ensure an increase in house prices which will negate any stamp duty savings as all that extra money will go into the "safe" property market. This increase will feed through into the rental market and any savings on tax for "ordinary" people will be lost many times over. That budget was either completely incompetent or a deliberate act to transfer money from the ordinary people to be rich ahead of the upcoming collapse of the world economy similar to 2008 only worse.

[PS_RalphW]

There are already rumours of letters of no confidence arriving at the 1922 committee. Boris is probably practicing his acceptance speech.

[RevdTess]

There are already rumours of letters of no confidence arriving at the 1922 committee. Boris is probably practicing his acceptance speech.

Does a new leader not get a year of safety?

All those saying they're ex-Tory members, will you still vote Conservative? Where else would you put your vote?

[careful_eugene]

Apparently Odey asset management have done very well out of the pounds demise, they also pay our new chancellor £20k per year as a consultant. Does this count as a conflict of interest, his actions have directly led to them profiting?

[Potemkin Villager]

All those saying they're ex-Tory members, will you still vote Conservative? Where else would you put your vote?

Yes I too would be fascinated to learn how they might manoeuver between such fantastical rocks and a hard places. Folk are probably bailing out
faster than young Russian males doing a runner from Putins war machine.

According to the Grauniad " “Paul Donovan, the chief economist at UBS global wealth management, said investors were inclined to see the Conservative party as a “doomsday cult”. What has happened to the self proclaimed party of sound financial management? Looks like someone has been spiking the cabinet Kool Aid with LSD.

[anotherexlurker]

If there was a general election tomorrow I do not know what I would do , I might for the first time not vote(I have always voted Tory in a general election , but have voted for others in local and European elections).
The constituency that I live in has always been Tory or "Not Liberal Not Democrats" , I would assume that the current clueless Libdem would walk it as she got an 8K majority last time. I cant vote for her or any party that supports rejoining the EU and I cant currently support the conservatives, voting Labour or for anyone else would be a wasted vote anyway.

If a general election is not called/forced for another 2 years then a lot could have changed (I hope to be living in a different constituency for one), at that point I would way up the local candidates , the party leaders and their polices at the time.