Ukraine Watch...

[kenneal - lagger]

If that is the case, then they are completely immoral using them in an urban environment where their inacurracy virtually guarantees killing civilians in numbers.

It just shows the criminality of the Russian hierarchy and the the whole enterprise.

[clv101]

If that is the case, then they are completely immoral using them in an urban environment where their inacurracy virtually guarantees killing civilians in numbers.

It just shows the criminality of the Russian hierarchy and the the whole enterprise.

Indeed Ken - the Russia's criminal approach is brutally immoral. However... the 'surgical', satellite guided, invasion of Iraq by Bush and Blair resulted in far more civilian casualties than Russia's invasion of Ukraine has (so far). From the point of view of the average, perfectly innocent civilian, I doubt they really see much difference.

[Vortex2]

The UK has announced a further £1billion of military support to help Ukraine resist Vladimir Putin’s brutal invasion.

The latest announcement, which came at the end of the first full day of the Nato summit in Madrid on Wednesday, takes Britain’s total economic and military support for Kyiv to £3.8bn this year.

I don't recollect being asked about any of this.

[adam2]

Neither do I recall being consulted about support for Ukraine.
But some times elected governments have to govern without putting each policy to a vote. I suspect that the majority of the population of the UK support Ukraine. As does the main opposition party.

[Vortex2]

Neither do I recall being consulted about support for Ukraine.
But some times elected governments have to govern without putting each policy to a vote. I suspect that the majority of the population of the UK support Ukraine. As does the main opposition party.

I suspect that 95%+ of those mentioned couldn't find Ukraine on a map.

[adam2]

Neither do I recall being consulted about support for Ukraine.
But some times elected governments have to govern without putting each policy to a vote. I suspect that the majority of the population of the UK support Ukraine. As does the main opposition party.

I suspect that 95%+ of those mentioned couldn't find Ukraine on a map.

Very likely true, but is being able to find a country on the map a requirement for supporting them with military aid ? Hopefully our political leaders CAN find Ukraine on a map, but I see no need for the average citizen to know this. Knowledge as to the location of Ukraine is arguably a good thing, but not a requirement.

Meanwhile, the Russian invaders have withdrawn from Snake Island, which seems a bit odd. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61987663

[Catweazle]

Neither do I recall being consulted about support for Ukraine.
But some times elected governments have to govern without putting each policy to a vote. I suspect that the majority of the population of the UK support Ukraine. As does the main opposition party.

I suspect that 95%+ of those mentioned couldn't find Ukraine on a map.

Pre WW2 you could probably have said the same about Poland.

[BritDownUnder]

I am seeing on media that Russians have evacuated Snake Island. It's a pity really as it seemed like it was a bit like one of those jam jars you put some sweet smelling liquid in them that attracts flies to them and they drown. Cleary not enough washing machines were there to retain the interest of the Russians.

[Vortex2]

Should you be inclined to believe that Russia is a superpower, take a look at some data ...

COUNTRY .... GDP .... % OF WORLD GDP
USA $19.485 trillion 24.08%
China $12.238 trillion 15.12%
Japan $4.872 trillion 6.02%
Germany $3.693 trillion 4.56%
India $2.651 trillion 3.28%
UK $2.638 trillion 3.26%
France $2.583 trillion 3.19%
Brazil $2.054 trillion 2.54%
Italy $1.944 trillion 2.40%
Canada $1.647 trillion 2.04%
Russia $1.578 trillion 1.95%
S Korea $1.531 trillion 1.89%


Country .... Military budget (in USD)
USA 770 billion
China 230 billion
Germany 110 billion
India 70 billion
UK 50-70 billion
France 48-55 billion
Japan 47 billion
Saudi Arabia 46 billion
S Korea 46 billion
Russia 31 billion

Total aid (not just military) to Ukraine since the invasion seems to exceed $62bn.

Something about all this mess seems fishy to me ... all the media hype, sanctions, weapons deliveries etc to stop a bit player on the world stage seems strange.

[Mark]

Something about all this mess seems fishy to me ... all the media hype, sanctions, weapons deliveries etc to stop a bit player on the world stage seems strange.

Russia isn't and never has been 'a bit player on the world stage'
Russia is a major nuclear armed power and a permanent member of the UN Security Council.
Russia borders 16 countries - Norway, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, and China. The US and Japan have maritime rights. There are also 2 unrecognised nations (Abkhazia and South Ossetia) wanting independence from Georgia. Plus Crimea and the Donbas ?
Russia might not have a massive GDP, but they'd certainly have a much bigger military budget if they could..

Russia has invaded an independent neighbour, which hasn't rolled over as expected, but has fought back.
NATO are now supporting them to defend themselves.
Just what is 'fishy' ??

[mr brightside]

Former Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone has said he would “take a bullet” for Russian President Vladimir Putin and described him as “a first-class person”.

Ecclestone was asked on ITV’s Good Morning Britain if he still regards Mr Putin as a friend and he replied: “I’d still take a bullet for him. I’d rather it didn’t hurt, but if it does I’d still take a bullet, because he’s a first-class person."

Everyone's got to have a friend; even paranoid, unpredictable totalitarian knobs.

[Potemkin Villager]

Everyone's got to have a friend; even paranoid, unpredictable totalitarian knobs.

This is a bit ambiguous. I assume you are not suggesting that the god of F1 is a
paranoid, unpredictable, totalitarian knob!

[BritDownUnder]

Should you be inclined to believe that Russia is a superpower, take a look at some data ...

Russia is a highly militarised state and has an enormous arms industry as a hangover from Soviet era. This military industrial complex takes up a larger percentage of national resources than most countries I would guess as it enables Russia to run its foreign policy and to deter its many neighbours and near-neighbours from attacking them as many of them have historically done, a lot of times in response to historic Russian encroachment on other countries and empires. There is probably something of a fortress mentality in Russia stemming from the Mongol invasions.

They also obtain a lot of military technology by espionage and reverse engineering. They have also been very innovative in developing weapons like ICBMs and ship launched anti-ship missiles before other countries.

Probably inaccurate to describe them as a superpower but a super military power yes.

I would also suspect that the US defence industry is one of the least efficient industries in the whole world.

[mr brightside]

Everyone's got to have a friend; even paranoid, unpredictable totalitarian knobs.

This is a bit ambiguous. I assume you are not suggesting that the god of F1 is a
paranoid, unpredictable, totalitarian knob!

The god of F1? Not much of an accolade IMHO, sports cease to be extreme when they become more fashionable, it's inversely proportional. Putin will have been interested in the money to be made through business connections, he probably couldn't tell a DFV from a YB, he probably can't drive; god knows he can drive us all up the wall, though.

[clv101]

On Russian power, this thread is useful: https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch/status ... qWNS1SpR2w