Coal

[adam2]

Regular coal burning for electricity production has returned to the UK, due no doubt to the high price of natural gas, and possible doubts about availability.
Electricity from coal has regularly been around 1.5 GW at times of high demand, and sometimes throughout the 24 hours.

I suspect that some coal burning will continue beyond the originally announced "end of coal" It would not surprise me if the remaining coal burning capacity is run until something expensive breaks, or until the boiler insurance runs out/becomes too expensive to renew.

I have mixed feelings about this. I would prefer to see coal for electricity phased out on environmental grounds. But under present circumstances, can electricity prices really be increased to 60 pence and more a unit ?
Coal power from existing plant is very cheap. The capital cost was written of years ago, so wages and fuel are the only major expenses.

[clv101]

Russia (used to) exports a lot of coal. Coal prices are at new record high. We certainly can't count on readily available imports.

The thermal coal market is in absolute panic mode, with main benchmarks surging north of $350 per tonne to an all-time high (Newcastle, API4, API2). Russia is a major thermal coal exporter and demand is high as many utilities prepare for gas-to-coal switch #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/JavierBlas/status/1 ... UTYhe9-evA

[BritDownUnder]

Yes Australia is seeing record prices for its coal.

Now the Chinese are presumably buying Russian coal the inevitable musical chairs will play out and Australian coal will be finding lots of new markets assuming the flooding problems and labour shortages in Australia can be solved.

[kenneal - lagger]

................ and labour shortages in Australia can be solved.

£10 fights for UK miners?

[BritDownUnder]

................ and labour shortages in Australia can be solved.

£10 fights for UK miners?

Given the historic Trade Union problems from UK miners that would be unlikely. I am not sure that the UK miners have the correct skills for Australia either - probably too old, already retired or don't want to move. A lot of electricians are required in Australia, Trade Union agitators, less so.

Back on topic I think the UK should give every effort to getting as many coal stations back on line ASAP. This may not be possible given Adam's comments on previous threads. Instead perhaps coal could replace natural gas in other industries or even large scale boilers or heating for greenhouses or hospitals etc. Even go back to heating some houses.

Australian coal is in quite hot demand and the shipping time and distances from the UK may not work. Perhaps coal from South Africa may be a more realistic choice for the UK to replace Russian coal.

I still think putting a 100% tax on all Russian imports of fossil fuels is a nice deterrent to buying their stuff.

[clv101]

Urm, as 'exciting' as today's prices and potential physical disruption are, the elephant of climate change hasn't gone away. There's nothing the economy (markets and physical) can do that's as damaging 3-4 degrees of global warming. Whatever the question is, coal isn't the answer.

[kenneal - lagger]

Urm, as 'exciting' as today's prices and potential physical disruption are, the elephant of climate change hasn't gone away. There's nothing the economy (markets and physical) can do that's as damaging 3-4 degrees of global warming. Whatever the question is, coal isn't the answer.

A national advertising campaign on prime time TV to drop house thermostat settings by 2 deg C and wear a couple of jumpers would be a good start. The sale of extra jumpers would do a lot for growth as well as I doubt that many people have more than one jumper at the moment!

[BritDownUnder]

In my opinion if the UK put in or renovated 10GW of coal power stations it would be rather insignificant on global warming compared with China's 1005GW (2019 figures) of operating coal power plants, the USA's 246GW and India's 228GW of coal plants. It would also probably cut the use of gas in UK power generation by half making a big dent in the UK gas imports or helping to conserve the UK's dwindling domestic gas reserves. Since mainly Asian developing countries have given themselves a metric of historic CO2 per capita total emissions that they think that they can emit the world will reach 2 degrees of warming with or without the UK's 10GW of hypothetical coal emissions.

If you want to make a rod for your own back while paying for Russian nuclear weapons, hacking attacks, chemical weapons, fake news etc then be my guest. Just another Russian useful idiot.

I would have no objections to energy saving options such as the "Save it" campaigns. When I was in New Zealand one year (2002) there was a 'dry' year with less than expected snow melt to power the hydro generating stations. I bought a blanket to cover my legs and reduced the thermostats on the electric heaters and saved a lot of energy.

I think we have gone through it before but you can reduce the thermostat, wear more clothes, install draft proofing, temporary double glazing and then insulation rather than giving money to expansionist dictators.

[Mark]

Johnson hints that new coal mine for Cumbria will get go-ahead:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61904622

Personally, I don't agree with approving this.
Appreciate there are arguments in favour, but climate policy needs to be front and centre of decision making
Going ahead blows any credibility the government has domestically and internationally on anything climate related....
Alok Sharma is still COP26 President until November 2022....

[kenneal - lagger]

Negawatts are cheaper than megawatts but they aren't good for growth so you can't have too many of them. A new coal mine on the other hand....

[BritDownUnder]

Quite simple. As I understand it is a metallurgical coal mine that gets used in steel making and not power generation. You can have steel made in China subject to Chinese stringent quality standards so you can build safe and reliable bridges with them, wonderful labour market job security and employment laws and not forgetting such an ethical domestic and foreign policy. Or you can get the steel made in the UK and not pay for Russia arms and nuclear threats. I know what I would be doing.

I applied for a job in West Cumbria once at a Chemical plant. Quite an interesting place but not somewhere I would have really wanted to live in but I hope the locals gets the mining jobs if they want them.

[Mark]

Well, it got approved, no surprises there.....

Cumbria coalmine approval shows Sunak does not care whether he is seen as green:
https://amp.theguardian.com/environment ... n-as-green

The £165m mine in Cumbria will produce coking coal for steelmaking, which the government has said will still be needed, even though steelmakers must move to low-carbon production in the next 13 years. Two of the UK’s existing steel companies have rejected the new coal, which means much of it will be exported to a world already awash with fossil fuels.

Ron Deelen, a former chief executive of British Steel, said: “This is a completely unnecessary step for the British steel industry, which is not waiting for more coal as there is enough on the free market available. The British steel industry needs green investment in electric arc furnaces and hydrogen to protect jobs and make the UK competitive.”

Even what's left of the UK's Steel Industry doesn't want it...
I've seen it estimated that 85% would be exported..., presumably to China ??

[BritDownUnder]

Good for the Balance of Payments if nothing else.

[Mark]

Good for the Balance of Payments if nothing else.

Regardless of the Balance of Payments, we need to get off Fossil Fuels....
We're in a CODE RED CLIMATE EMERGENCY !!
This is a terrible decision....

[Forever_Winter]

Folks,

I've just bought 1 tonne of house coal. Super cheap but not very eco friendly.