Companies going bankrupt/into administration

[kenneal - lagger]

Looks like the future of farming in this country is organic farming. Much more sustainable although it will take about 5 years to transition.

[BritDownUnder]

I would be interested to know how nitrates can be replenished with organic farming other than growing large numbers of legumes.

Also...

the best way of “making sure we could maintain operations and provide critical products to the local market” was to close the facility.

from the FT seems a bit like the owners are closing Ince to stop someone else getting in the market and reducing supply so the constant demand will increase prices.

[Mark]

I would be interested to know how nitrates can be replenished with organic farming other than growing large numbers of legumes.

Don't know how it's done on a commercial scale.
On a small allotment scale, I found that comfrey grows very readily and works well as a fertiliser:
https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/comfrey

[Mark]

from the FT seems a bit like the owners are closing Ince to stop someone else getting in the market and reducing supply so the constant demand will increase prices.

That's my suspicion too, BDU...
HMG should be trying to force a sale...., and/or refer it to the Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) ?
At the very least, it should force CF Industries (worth around $9b and making £684m in profit) to repay our tens of millions of £s....
https://www.cfindustries.com/newsroom/2 ... 021results

They won't do anything of course...., after all, we're in a free market economy....
But they're all too happy to remove the £20/week uplift in Universal Credit...

[Mark]

Looks like the future of farming in this country is organic farming. Much more sustainable although it will take about 5 years to transition.

I really hope you're right, but personally, I can't see a full-scale transition in 5 years.

The whole of the agri-industrial system is far too deep rooted - from the land owners, the seed companies, the feed companies, animal breeders, the chemical companies, the farmers, the food processors, the warehousing and logistics companies, the supermarkets all the way to the consumers...

Even with a favourable wind, my estimate is 20 years, just to get a partial conversion...
Suspect we'll get a similar trajectory as to what we're currently seeing for renewable energy and electric vehicles...

[kenneal - lagger]

The actual transition of one farm takes 5 years from chemical to organic. I agree, how long it would take for the whole country to transition is anyone's guess. There's too much invested in chemicals for there to be any government support for such a move; the lobbyists wouldn't allow it and neither would the economists as there would be a perceived loss of growth. Actual growth of plants would be much better and healthier for the plants and us though.

[Mark]

Gateshead factory closure puts 430 jobs at risk:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-62590397

No workers wanting a job in the NE ?
Brexit, or poor pay and conditions ?

[kenneal - lagger]

...............
No workers wanting a job in the NE ?
Brexit, or poor pay and conditions ?

Or underinvestment in mechanisation? Although they said that they have invested.

By Brexit do you mean, Mark, that we can't attract even more immigrants to fuel economic growth to fuel climate change and also lower our food production per head at a time when food imports will become more difficult and expensive due to climate change? This is one of the positive feedback loops which will make climate change worse unless we change our attitudes to immigration to fuel growth.

[Mark]

By Brexit do you mean, Mark, that we can't attract even more immigrants to fuel economic growth to fuel climate change and also lower our food production per head at a time when food imports will become more difficult and expensive due to climate change? This is one of the positive feedback loops which will make climate change worse unless we change our attitudes to immigration to fuel growth.

I don't know this company, so can't really comment on the background.
However, I certainly don't see it as positive news - we need to retain as much manufacturing as possible in the UK - especially food
I never like seeing jobs lost, particularly in relatively depressed areas like the NE - bit surprised when they say they couldn't recruit
The company says that production will be consolidated at another UK plant (no mention of growth)
If true, I guess that's at least better than yet more imports.....

Slightly OT, but did you see the news report last week on NHS nurse recruitment ?
No increase in UK trained nurses, massive drop in EU nurses, many NHS Trusts actively recruiting in places like India, the Philippines and Nigeria.

[Vortex2]

I was chatting to an insolvency practitoner the other day.

He is expecting a ramping up of small company failures.

Inflation, energy costs, a slow economy and the burden of paying back Bounce Back Loans will prove too much for them at the end of the day.

We will lose many very useful, very skilled small firms.

[kenneal - lagger]

....................
We will lose many very useful, very skilled small firms.

That might result in a lot of people setting up in sheds in the garden and doing cash jobs on the side.

[Mark]

Of course BDU....

What a stinker! UK division of fertiliser giant CF Industries paid £4.5m dividend before bailout:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mar ... ilout.html

The UK division of fertiliser giant CF Industries – which hit headlines last year when a factory shutdown threatened to cut off Britain's CO2 supplies – paid out a £4.5million dividend to its US parent group just three months before receiving a bailout from the UK Government. The payout has been disclosed in the most recent accounts for CF Industries (UK), which closed both its UK plants in September due to the sharp rise in gas prices. The closures in Billingham, Teesside, and Ince, in Cheshire, triggered an intervention from Ministers, who stepped in to provide CF Industries with a three-week taxpayer-funded subsidy worth tens of millions of pounds to prevent a carbon dioxide (CO2) supply crisis.

Smells like typical Tory sleaze too...., doubt that HMG will ever reclaim OUR tens of millions of pounds....
The pigs are all together with their snouts in the trough.....
Happy days for some.....

Fears new CO2 crisis will lead to food shortages after closure of major production plant:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... plant.html

Billingham now set to close now....
Is this a genuine closure, or a blackmail move to get more £ from HMG ?

[adam2]

We might have to go back to the old way of obtaining carbon dioxide.
It was produced by Distillers PLC, a company noted for the production of potable spirits. Before spirits can be distilled, a lower alcohol liquid is produced by fermentation. This produces a lot of carbon dioxide, that was captured and sold in cylinders or bulk tanks.
Demand for spirits is consistent, thereby giving a reliable supply of carbon dioxide.

It was then found cheaper to utilise carbon dioxide that was a byproduct of the fertiliser industry.

[Mark]

Surging cost of carbon dioxide could add £1.7BILLION to the price of groceries:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... eries.html

There could be some alternatives to CO2 for meat - either buying from a butcher or processing plants changing back to vacuum packing....
Not sure what we can do about beer, apart from drink less....

[adam2]

Or simply revert to obtaining carbon dioxide as detailed two posts back.