Ukraine Watch...

[PS_RalphW]

Biden to propose using seized Russian assets to provide humanitarian aid to Ukraine.

Vortex2 is being deliberately obtuse

[Stumuz2]

Would you have said the same thing about the camp guards at Auschwitz?

They killed people close up.

You kill people by mail order.

Cruise missiles are close up?

Huh? I don't think the Auschwitz camp guards had cruise missiles?

BOTH sides in the current war however have missiles of various sorts.

BTW Ukrainian guards outnumbered Nazi SS men 10-to-one at the Sobibor death camp. Ukrainians also served in other camps.

I think you know the point i'm making. Is it morally right to send resources so the Ukrainians can defend themselves?

[Vortex2]

Russian TV host says nuclear strike is 'most probable' outcome of Ukraine war - Daily Telegraph

[kenneal - lagger]

......................
Nobody asked me if I wanted our forces to attack Russia or provide huge amounts of weapons to a non-democratic state which hardly anyone in the UK has heard of or could find on a map.

Judging by the lack of opposition to arms supplies to Ukraine in Parliament I think that all the parties know that there is general support for those supplies and that many people would be happy to go further.

If the Russians do win and eventually take over here, Vortex, we'll nominate you for Puppet President. with In-valid as your deputy. The Russians might prefer it the other way round though with someone that they know better at the top!

[Catweazle]

Has anybody heard of conscientious objectors ? Surely refusing to supply bullets to a war zone is comparable, not deserving of being labelled a Putin stooge.

[Vortex2]

If the Russians do win and eventually take over here, Vortex, we'll nominate you for Puppet President

That's just silly.

Take a step back, and instead of buying bullets to kill Russian conscripts, review some history.

We are slowly but steadily marching into war, thanks to incremental, reactive, shallow thinking.

All that flag waving, delivery of tons of weapons etc is now leading to regular discussions on possible nuclear conflict.

Many are now talking of Russia paying reparations : it may already be happening, with the West seizing property and financial assets of Russians.

As a reminder, reparations didn't go too well for the world after WW1.

The West - especially the US - has been warmongering for decades and has got away with it as they are the Goodies.

(Tell that to the people killed by US drones in 'signature strikes')

I would guess that the US is essentially wanting to control Ukrainian territory in the east that is home to the second largest known reserves of natural gas in Europe.

Why do all recent Western wars seem to involve oil or gas rich lands? Curious.

[Vortex2]

Has anybody heard of conscientious objectors ? Surely refusing to supply bullets to a war zone is comparable, not deserving of being labelled a Putin stooge.

Thank you Catweazle.

TBH I feel that anyone sending cash from their comfy and safe armchair in the UK to buy bullets to kill others in another land is ill thought out, simplistic and above all immoral.

Shades of Northern Aid (NORAID).

[automaticearth2]

......................
Nobody asked me if I wanted our forces to attack Russia or provide huge amounts of weapons to a non-democratic state which hardly anyone in the UK has heard of or could find on a map.

Judging by the lack of opposition to arms supplies to Ukraine in Parliament I think that all the parties know that there is general support for those supplies and that many people would be happy to go further.

If the Russians do win and eventually take over here, Vortex, we'll nominate you for Puppet President. with In-valid as your deputy. The Russians might prefer it the other way round though with someone that they know better at the top!

You forgot Default0ptions! then you'd have the 3 Stooges

[Vortex2]

Ten sensible people posting on Powerswitch
Ten sensible people posting on Powerswitch
And if one sensible person should be silenced
There'll be nine sensible people posting on Powerswitch

Nine sensible people posting on Powerswitch
Nine sensible people posting on Powerswitch
And if one sensible person should be silenced
There'll be eight sensible people posting on Powerswitch

Eight sensible people posting on Powerswitch
Eight sensible people posting on Powerswitch
And if one sensible person should be silenced
There'll be seven sensible people posting on Powerswitch

Seven sensible people posting on Powerswitch
Seven sensible people posting on Powerswitch
And if one sensible person should be silenced
There'll be six sensible people posting on Powerswitch

Six sensible people posting on Powerswitch
Six sensible people posting on Powerswitch
And if one sensible person should be silenced
There'll be five sensible people posting on Powerswitch

Five sensible people posting on Powerswitch
Five sensible people posting on Powerswitch
And if one sensible person should be silenced
There'll be four sensible people posting on Powerswitch

Four sensible people posting on Powerswitch
Four sensible people posting on Powerswitch
And if one sensible person should be silenced
There'll be three sensible people posting on Powerswitch

Three sensible people posting on Powerswitch
Three sensible people posting on Powerswitch
And if one sensible person should be silenced
There'll be two sensible people posting on Powerswitch

Two sensible people posting on Powerswitch
Two sensible people posting on Powerswitch
And if one sensible person should be silenced
There'll be one sensible people posting on Powerswitch

One sensible person posting on Powerswitch
One sensible person posting on Powerswitch
And if one sensible person should be silenced
There'll be no sensible people posting on Powerswitch at all.

[Stumuz2]

I would guess that the US is essentially wanting to control Ukrainian territory in the east that is home to the second largest known reserves of natural gas in Europe.

Why do all recent Western wars seem to involve oil or gas rich lands? Curious.

You make a valid point. Nations do not go to war with countries whose main export is carrots.

So Russia has invaded a resource rich land.

What should be done?

[Potemkin Villager]

It would also be fascinating to know just where the UK's ICBMs are targeted

Many, many years ago I worked in defence.
I was assigned to a certain project which I assumed would be targetted at Russia ... I was astonished to find where it was actually targetted.
Sorry, can't say more.

Oh go on we wont tell anyone!

Logically one must assume if MAD is to be credible one has to target all possible sources of attack.

So this means Russia, China, Israel, North Korea etc and .........

Often the Cuban missile crisis of October 1962 is blamed squarely on the USSR. It is rarely reported that the locating
of missiles in Cuba followed the US locating Jupiter missiles in Italy and Turkey which were quietly removed following the crisis.

There are a lot of pots calling kettles black here.

[Stumuz2]

TBH I feel that anyone sending cash from their comfy and safe armchair in the UK to buy bullets to kill others in another land is ill thought out, simplistic and above all immoral.

Shades of Northern Aid (NORAID).

A very silly comparison. NORAID aim was to kill civilians. To provide munitions to heroically plant bombs in pubs and skulk away. Ukraine has been invaded with overwhelming modern military force.

What would you do?

[UndercoverElephant]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-61260511

President Biden is asking Congress for $33bn (£27bn) in military, economic and humanitarian assistance to support Ukraine - although he insisted that the US was not "attacking Russia".

Mr Biden said it was "critical" for US lawmakers to approve the deal, which he said would help Ukraine defend itself.

The proposal includes more than $20bn in military aid, $8.5bn in economic aid and $3bn in humanitarian aid.

"It's not cheap," Mr Biden said on Thursday.

I see only escalation now until Russia is defeated.

As for Putin's nuclear threats...they cannot be justification for de-escalation. He's basically saying "let me win in Ukraine or I will start throwing my nuclear toys out of my pram". The west cannot respond to that by caving in to the demand, because that will just give Putin an open invitation to take the whole of Ukraine, and not stop there. If Putin is stupid enough to use a nuclear weapon then the result will be apocalyptic for Russia. We've already seen the quality of Russia's military capability. Maybe a few nukes would get through, but most would either fail to operate or be taken out by defensive systems before they reach their intended targets. Meanwhile, Russia would be anihilated. And Putin surely knows all this. He is not going to use nuclear weapons. Although he may very well use chemical and biological weapons, and I am not sure what the west's response would be to that.

[Vortex2]

Maybe a few nukes would get through
Russia has historically had poor missile accuracy.
They made up for this by building large weapons
The West might use precision 150KT -350KT weapons .. but a Russian warhead could well be closer to 2MT.
That's a lot of oomf.

[UndercoverElephant]

Maybe a few nukes would get through
Russia has historically had poor missile accuracy.
They made up for this by building large weapons
The West might use precision 150KT -350KT weapons .. but a Russian warhead could well be closer to 2MT.
That's a lot of oomf.

I'm moving to a remote part of Wales...