Growing crops near a septic tank questions

[UndercoverElephant]

I don't have anything to add to what I've already said. This really isn't helping.

[adam2]

I don't have anything to add to what I've already said. This really isn't helping.

I agree. Any further replies should be on the wisdom or otherwise of growing crops near a septic tank.
Composting toilets have their merits, but the O/P has clearly stated that a composting toilet is not on the agenda, for reasons given.

[UndercoverElephant]

I don't have anything to add to what I've already said. This really isn't helping.

I agree. Any further replies should be on the wisdom or otherwise of growing crops near a septic tank.
Composting toilets have their merits, but the O/P has clearly stated that a composting toilet is not on the agenda, for reasons given.

We are going to install a composting toilet - outside. We have plans to eventually set up a glamping businesses, which will need one, and we want to give people the option to use one. The question is whether we immediately get rid of the flushing toilets inside the house as well, and we aren't ready to do that, for reasons given.

[Vortex2]

Can you afford to replace the septic tank with a packaged sewage plant?
They produce notionally clean waste water.

[UndercoverElephant]

Can you afford to replace the septic tank with a packaged sewage plant?
They produce notionally clean waste water.

If we had to replace the septic tank then we would do this, for sure. But given that we have a long term plan to phase out/down its use for sewage, I doubt this is going to be a sensible investment. Ultimately the existing system will end up being primarily a grey water distributor that only needs the sludge pumping out once a decade.

[adam2]

In the near term, the existing flush toilets are to stay as is the existing septic tank.

My "gut feeling" is that the growing of root crops is unwise, I simply do not fancy eating vegetables that have grown near sewage.
Other crops where only the above ground parts are eaten feel safer. Grains, peas, beans, soft fruit bushes, and grass for grazing animals. Or indeed grass for haymaking.
This is however based upon my own subjective views, and NOT on published data.

Fruit and nut trees should be OK from the food hygeine point of view but are probably best avoided lest the roots damage underground pipes.

[RenewableCandy]

In the near term, the existing flush toilets are to stay as is the existing septic tank.

My "gut feeling" is that the growing of root crops is unwise, I simply do not fancy eating vegetables that have grown near sewage.
Other crops where only the above ground parts are eaten feel safer. Grains, peas, beans, soft fruit bushes, and grass for grazing animals. Or indeed grass for haymaking.
This is however based upon my own subjective views, and NOT on published data.

Fruit and nut trees should be OK from the food hygeine point of view but are probably best avoided lest the roots damage underground pipes.

Marvellous Other 1/2's family's dacha has a composting bog. I'm not squeamish and I (used to) pride myself on having guts of iron. However having eaten at the place - home-grown cucumbers harvested near said bog - I, er, became a loo-tenant for half the night!

Thus, though other things may have been the cause in this case, I think going with your 'gut feeling' is a good idea!

[kenneal - lagger]

It is probably not a good idea to eat raw food grown on/in humanure but anything that is cooked should be OK.

I doubt that anything grown on top of a septic tank leach field would be a problem as long as the leachate didn't break the surface.

If something like a lettuce is picked from ground where the of is a shallow drainage system it would probably be a good idea to cut the roots off without handling them so that there is no likely cross contamination.

Taking some sensible precautions should enable food to be safely consumed on and around septic tanks.

[Potemkin Villager]

It is probably not a good idea to eat raw food grown on/in humanure but anything that is cooked should be OK.

Would you say it is also not a good idea to eat raw foods grown on/in horse or cow or goat or sheep manure?

I have been liberally applying rotted horse manure to my veg patches for over 30 years with apparently
no ill effect to myself and others.

I am really intrigued where the taboo about humanure comes from and if it is purely based on science.

[UndercoverElephant]

It is probably not a good idea to eat raw food grown on/in humanure but anything that is cooked should be OK.

Would you say it is also not a good idea to eat raw foods grown on/in horse or cow or goat or sheep manure?

I have been liberally applying rotted horse manure to my veg patches for over 30 years with apparently
no ill effect to myself and others.

I am really intrigued where the taboo about humanure comes from and if it is purely based on science.

This is not quite the same as putting rotted manure on to the ground. It is not rotted. There is untreated sewage in the tank, and a "negative biological pole" in the ground where the tank discharges. So the biology of the soil is different, and I presume there is an increased biological risk if you were to eat unwashed/raw root crops, or maybe low-growing salad crops. The risk from anything growing more than a few inches from the ground is surely negligible though. Even cooked rhubarb is probably fine. I don't think I'll be growing salad carrots there.

[adam2]

It is probably not a good idea to eat raw food grown on/in humanure but anything that is cooked should be OK.

Would you say it is also not a good idea to eat raw foods grown on/in horse or cow or goat or sheep manure?

I have been liberally applying rotted horse manure to my veg patches for over 30 years with apparently
no ill effect to myself and others.

I am really intrigued where the taboo about humanure comes from and if it is purely based on science.

It is partly based on science. Human waste is liable to contain micro organisms, eggs or cysts that result from human diseases and can spread these diseases to other humans.
Animal dung carries SOME risk but much less than does human waste because the dung PROBABLY contains only things dangerous to other animals. Pig manure is higher risk than cow or horse manure because pigs and humans suffer from many of the same diseases.
I would therefore be reluctant to eat raw food that had been grown near human waste. Unless the waste was very well and very reliably treated so as to kill any disease causing organisms.
Even cooked food is an indirect risk if taken into the kitchen whilst raw. Consider raw root vegetables taken straight from garden to kitchen. Unless unusually strict hygiene precautions are in place there is a significant chance of cross contamination from the raw roots to cooked food about to be eaten. Via utensils, surfaces, wiping cloths, and the cooks hands.
Most cooks are aware that the hands should be thoroughly washed immediately after use of the toilet, and preferably washed AGAIN on returning to the kitchen. But how many take such precautions after handling raw carrots etc ?

[Potemkin Villager]

Sorry I seem to have drifted off the thread topic from raw sewage leaching from a septic tank to well rotted humanure!

A lot of the cow "muck", that is liberally spread on the fields of grass grown around here used to feed said cows,
smells quite "fresh" to me. It is supposed to be spread during dry spells so that it has a chance to solidifiy somewhat and is thus slow released when
it rains. That seems to work out OK for the cows and we are happy to drink their milk and eat them. Like wise sheep seem happy close
cropping grass fertilised directly by their own dainty unrotted poo pellets.

I wonder if there is a case of human exceptionalism going on here when it comes to what exits our own arses
that is only "partly based on science"?

Having said all that just spotted this organic horror story!

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/organic-veget ... 06676.html

"Researchers used a metagenomic technique that identifies DNA in all bacteria present inside FLA.

A third of samples (34%) contained 52 potentially disease-causing types of bacteria including Legionella, Salmonella, and Arcobacter.

The resulting infections can cause conditions including pneumonia and gastrointestinal illness."

[Catweazle]

From that link;

They found that products such as organically-farmed peas in Sweden have a 50% bigger impact on the environment than food farmed non-organically.

The reason why organic food is so much worse for the climate is that the yields per hectare are much lower, primarily because fertilisers are not used.

To produce the same amount of organic food, you therefore need a much bigger area of land – and this has knock-on effects around the world.

Oops.

[UndercoverElephant]

Sounds like cooking is absolutely necessary then.

[Potemkin Villager]

From that link;

They found that products such as organically-farmed peas in Sweden have a 50% bigger impact on the environment than food farmed non-organically.

The reason why organic food is so much worse for the climate is that the yields per hectare are much lower, primarily because fertilisers are not used.

To produce the same amount of organic food, you therefore need a much bigger area of land – and this has knock-on effects around the world.

Oops.

Well spotted, if it is true we really are well and truly fecked.