Ukraine Watch...

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kenneal - lagger
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by kenneal - lagger »

Default0ptions wrote: 21 Apr 2022, 13:51 Look at Kiev. It’s pretty much intact.

Certainly nothing like Fallujah or even Baghdad after a little taste of shock and awe from our friends over the pond.

Russia said at the outset it had no intention to take Kiev.
If Putin didn't intend to take Kiev why the hell did he send his best airborne troops supported by his best ground troops on a mission which was a feint? Is was probably the most expensive feint in the history of warfare as his best troops were almost wiped out! And they were unable to get close enough to bombard Kiev with the artillery which they bought because the Ukrainians made them and Putin look like fools, and incompetent ones at that! As a result of being made fools of the Russian troops then indulged in an orgy of murder, rape and pillaging before running back home with their tails between their legs. Meanwhile the Ukrainians know just who the murderers, rapists and pillagers are because they have been caught on camera and can be located from all the electronic equipment that they have stolen and taken home with them. The Ukrainians are using facial recognition technology to match up Russian soldiers with their social media accounts so they will be bought to justice eventually.
We, on the other hand, are still occupying Baghdad.
That's funny, I thought that any western troops were in Iraq at the request of the government in order to train their troops to resist incursions by ISIL and Iran. Russian troops certainly aren't in Ukraine at the request of the Ukrainian government to protect Ukraine from NATO nor are they welcomed there by the Ukrainian people judging by the kicking they are giving Russian troops. In fact the Ukrainian government is asking NATO to intervene om its behalf to a far greater extent. Are you saying, D0, that the freely and lawfully elected government of Ukraine, which is run by a man of Jewish parentage and contains not one Nazi, should bend to the will of a foreign, kleptomaniac, bullying tyrant who has left a trail of murdered or jailed opponents across the world and bombed and shelled cities in countries bordering Russia and let his murderous forces rob and pillage Ukraine?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawa ... 80%932021)
The United States completed its prior withdrawal of troops in December 2011, concluding the Iraq War.[8] In June 2014, the United States formed Combined Joint Task Force – Operation Inherent Resolve (CJTF-OIR) and re-intervened at the request of the Iraqi government due to the rise of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).
2500 troops does not make an invasion not an occupation.
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PS_RalphW
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by PS_RalphW »

Of course, as Putin said this morning Russia would stop attacking the Azov steel plant, today Russian forces attacked the Azov steel plant.
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Default0ptions wrote: 21 Apr 2022, 13:51 Look at Kiev. It’s pretty much intact.

Certainly nothing like Fallujah or even Baghdad after a little taste of shock and awe from our friends over the pond.

Russia said at the outset it had no intention to take Kiev.
My bold. "Our "friends?

This is why I can't understand why you are still posting here. You are quite clearly Russian, and also quite clearly pretending you are not. If you just admitted you are, in fact, Russian, then that would be fine. Pretending you are British while posting transparent Russian propaganda is not fine.

Of course Putin intended to take Kiev, and having been made to look like fools by failing to do so, Russia has responded by committing the worst war crimes in Europe since WW2: the mass slaughter of civilians as retribution.
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by kenneal - lagger »

Vortex2 wrote: 20 Apr 2022, 20:25 Russia has successfully tested a new intercontinental nuclear ballistic missile as Vladimir Putin warned the Kremlin’s enemies to “think twice” about threatening his country.

The Russian defence ministry confirmed that its Sarmat missile had been launched on Wednesday from the Plesetsk launch facility in the north of the country.


Oh, wonderful.
So they have one missile that they can test. Russia has a new super tank but they can't produce any to use. They have a new stealth fighter but not enough to actually fight with. They have a wonderful new super ICBM but can they get the electronic parts to build another?
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invalid
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by invalid »

clv101 wrote: 21 Apr 2022, 12:49
It was a gamble. Rather than asking why Russia invaded Ukraine I think it's more important to understand how and why it went so wrong for Russia.
It may or may not have gone 'wrong' for Russia in the beginning, but I think they're perfectly capable of adjusting their tactics, and of course they're still fighting and still attacking. Can Ukraine put up as much resistance in the South and East as they did around Kyiv? Perhaps not.
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by automaticearth2 »

I think it's only a matter of time before NATO steps in to drop the Russian bum ..
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adam2
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by adam2 »

I have deleted a number of posts because they were either off topic, or contained personal insults or quotes thereof or replies thereto. Personal insults are not permitted. Calls to ban any member belong in the "suggestion box" area.
Please keep on the topic of Ukraine.
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Default0ptions
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by Default0ptions »

I’m going to stop posting on this subject because I think our viewpoints are irreconcilable.
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RenewableCandy
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by RenewableCandy »

Morning chat with Marvellous Other 1/2, who has been following progress via a (reliable but perhaps a little biassed towards optimism on the Ukrainian side) military expert Alexei Arestovich.

He (other 1/2) reckons a possible outcome would be to draw the line *where the eastern front is now* and let Russia have the bits it already occupies - but not the whole of Don & Luh.

Our collective reasoning is thus:

Him: these are ppl who have been (a) shelled by Ukrainians and (b) fed only the Russian side of the goings-on. If brought (back) into Ukraine they'll be more of a liability for the place than an asset. Many have cheerfully accepted the offer of Russian passports.
Me: this is Ukraine's Industrial East, which is more-or-less a rust belt on blighted land (basically the Russian attitude to pollution is that you don't bother about it, and then if anyone protests, you silence them. This preceded Putin and will likely outlive him.) Any crops grown here will make you ill. However Putin, if handed this 'victory', might then be emboldened to go on to do more damage.

This is the 1st time in my lifetime I've seen a significant war/invasion waged by someone who isn't, technically, a UK ally. I realise I've never been a proper pacifist. Putin's antics, whatever it was he actually wanted to achieve, has finally given NATO some purpose in life - given it 'a story'. The results of this are only just beginning to show.
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automaticearth2
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by automaticearth2 »

Default0ptions wrote: 23 Apr 2022, 14:38 I’m going to stop posting on this subject because I think our viewpoints are irreconcilable.
Nothing is irreconcilable D0. You just (and your sock puppet invalid) just need to accept alternative points of view. Russia may have legitimate concerns, but smashing up a country is really not a great look. Putin could have had Donbas without any invasion. ....
automaticearth2
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by automaticearth2 »

Adam,

I noticed that invalids post was deleted. Not sure why? I was going to respond to it.
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adam2
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by adam2 »

automaticearth2 wrote: 24 Apr 2022, 18:31 Adam,

I noticed that invalids post was deleted. Not sure why? I was going to respond to it.
Off topic, not really about Ukraine.
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Mark
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by Mark »

adam2 wrote: 24 Apr 2022, 19:07 Off topic, not really about Ukraine.
My personal opinion only, but I don't like over zealous moderating.
If posts are 'off topic', they should be moved, rather than deleted.
I don't agree with Default0ptions or invalid, but their opinions should be heard - that's why we're different to Russia, no ?
Default0ptions
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by Default0ptions »

UE: “This is why I can't understand why you are still posting here. You are quite clearly Russian, and also quite clearly pretending you are not”

I’m English. I love the way you have complete insight to my existence and ancestry. And are wrong.

But this is why I’m going to stop posting on this subject.

There’s a lot of fruitful discussion to be had here, but I don’t think I’m contributing constructively by asserting a position that you have all ruled out a priori.

If my nationality is really important for your peace of mind UE - I’ve no objection to meeting up in RL.
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Re: Ukraine Watch...

Post by Default0ptions »

Mark wrote: 24 Apr 2022, 21:45
adam2 wrote: 24 Apr 2022, 19:07 Off topic, not really about Ukraine.
My personal opinion only, but I don't like over zealous moderating.
If posts are 'off topic', they should be moved, rather than deleted.
I don't agree with Default0ptions or invalid, but their opinions should be heard - that's why we're different to Russia, no ?
I’m very happy with the moderation here. There’s never a good reason for personal insults and those are quite rightly removed.

I know very few of you on here agree with me on the whole situation, but I’m grateful not to have simply been banned out of hand

One thing I hope we can all agree on is a quick end to the war, and quick end to any further loss of life
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