P and O ferries in trouble.

[Stumuz2]

What Irish Ferries did in 2005 was clearly wrong, but the owners got away with it for whatever reason(s)

Yes, it was wrong what the Irish gov' (the owners) did. They took advantage of Latvia joining the EU in 2004, and by 2005 had sacked its Irish workforce and replaced them with Latvians. Massive labour bill saving. The ' whatever reasons' you cite was the EU internal market. AKA beggar thy neighbour, Mmm solidarity and values.

This doesn't make right what P&O has done - as we all know, 2 wrongs don't make a right.

So, it's okay for one wrong? Because they're Irish? diddly diddly and all that?

Stena and DFDS haven't resorted to going down this road, but I'm sure they're currently enjoying an uptick in business...

Stena does not do the Dover -Calais route.
Therefore, now the moral scumbags Irish ferries are doing the Dover Route, P&O have lowered themselves to Irish ferry scumbag level. DFDS will with need to go full scumbag or loose trade and then go bankrupt.

We also need to await the outcome of all the criminal and civil proceedings against P&O which will no doubt make recommendations
If ferry operators use UK Ports, we could/should insist that they pay the UK minimum wage at the very least.
However, appreciate this might set a precedent for other types of shipping, such as Container Ships, Cruise Ships etc....

Criminal and civil proceedings against P&O is a mere fig leaf for no consequences, they have said clearly it was cheaper to break the law because it's fines and compensation only. No director personal liability. Also, is Grant Shapps going to ban the LNG tankers on the 'regular' Qatar to Milford haven route, because they don't pay UK minimum wage? I don't think so.

In hindsight, P&O would have been much better off liaising with the Trade Unions in the first place.
As required by the law.....

Nah, the RMT is a bunch of Markist lefties. And my daughter is a member!

[Mark]

I can only repeat what I've already said - what Irish Ferries did in 2005 and what P&O are doing now are BOTH clearly wrong
One happened inside the EU, one happened outside the EU.

Meanwhile Operation Brock continues to cause chaos for cross channel imports/exports, travelers and the Kent population...
Seven of P&O's eight ships are yet to pass full safety inspections by MCA - only Liverpool-Dublin is running
More than ironic that the names of P&O's 2 ferries on the Dover/Calais route are the 'Pride of Kent' and the 'Spirit of Britain'

Also perhaps a good time to give a gentle reminder that Sanitary and Phytosanitary (SPS) controls are supposed to arrive in July....
& that the European Travel Information and Authorization System (ETIAS) and the Entry/Exit systems are also coming soon.....

[Stumuz2]

I can only repeat what I've already said - what Irish Ferries did in 2005 and what P&O are doing now are BOTH clearly wrong
One happened inside the EU, one happened outside the EU.

But what you have not commented on, is the most glaring point that needs an opinion.

Irish ferries have, by their scumbag tactics, become the 'Ryanair' of the cross channel ferry world.

Now that Irish ferries want to 'compete' on the lucrative Dover-Calais route, what were P&O supposed to do?
Carry on with their 'moral' business model and go the way of Monarch airlines or Flybe? BTW, these airlines went bust with > 4000K jobs lost, because Ryan scumbag air killed them with cheap fares.

So what was P&O supposed to do?

[Mark]

Firstly, P&O needs to comply with the law, like every other company.
If not, then chaos ensues, no ?

P&O is owned by DP World in the tax haven that is Dubai.
DP World is ultimately owned by Dubai’s ruling royal family through Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem
They have virtually limitless funds, so I don't shed any tears for them losing a few quid on P&O during COVID.
It's the 800 workers I feel sorry for, and the replacement crews, many who will be getting paid less than UK minimum wage.

On the broader point, it's up to the government to ensure 'fair play' and competition.
The sunny uplands of Brexit was supposed to give us back control of our seas and borders, no ?
If Irish Ferries aren't following the rules, don't give them a licence to operate ?
Or come up with some way of preventing them undercutting/profiteering - a ferry tax ?
Same with the airlines - where there's a will, there's a way....

[Stumuz2]

OK. You don't want to answer the question.

Often the simplest of questions cause the greatest of difficulty.

[PS_RalphW]

P and O are suspending all ferry services in definately.

[Mark]

P&O ferry detained at Dover fails second safety check:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61086897

Hopes of P&O Ferries sailing from Dover before Easter have been dashed after one of its ships failed a safety inspection for the second time. Two P&O ferries remain detained after Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) inspectors found safety and crew documentation "deficiencies". The Pride of Kent, which failed the check again on Wednesday, will remain docked with the Spirit of Britain. Both ships normally serve the Dover to Calais route.

[Mark]

P&O Ferries 'tries to CUT wages of its new low-paid foreign staff':
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... staff.html

P&O's millionaire boss Peter Hebblethwaite, who admitted the sackings were illegal in testimony to MPs, replaced employees with cheaper £5.50-an-hour foreign agency workers. Some crew earn just £748 a month for a 40-hour week – barely £4.50 an hour. In one example, workers say chefs paid £2,336 a month on temporary contracts were asked to sign new deals giving them £195 a month less. Although it is not known who faced a cut in wages, or if staff on seven other ferries were targeted too. Darren Procter, national secretary of the RMT says some of the new workers were brought in on just a month's contract, and when those contracts expired the staff were offered 'inferior terms'.

[automaticearth2]

P&O Ferries 'tries to CUT wages of its new low-paid foreign staff':
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... staff.html

P&O's millionaire boss Peter Hebblethwaite, who admitted the sackings were illegal in testimony to MPs, replaced employees with cheaper £5.50-an-hour foreign agency workers. Some crew earn just £748 a month for a 40-hour week – barely £4.50 an hour. In one example, workers say chefs paid £2,336 a month on temporary contracts were asked to sign new deals giving them £195 a month less. Although it is not known who faced a cut in wages, or if staff on seven other ferries were targeted too. Darren Procter, national secretary of the RMT says some of the new workers were brought in on just a month's contract, and when those contracts expired the staff were offered 'inferior terms'.

Also, a bunch of sailors were sacked for being drunk! That prevented them from sailing. Not looking for P&O
'What do we do with a drunken sailor..'

[adam2]

And now a ferry adrift in the Irish sea, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-61229753

[Stumuz2]

P&O Ferries 'tries to CUT wages of its new low-paid foreign staff':

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/gran ... 96503.html

P & O now resumed sailings from Dover.

So the Dover Calais route has two Scumbag ferry companies operating on the lucrative crossing.

Irish scumbag ferries. Diddly diddly diddly no one cares cheeky little leprechauns. Good luck ta ya ol.

P&O scumbag ferries. CEO an Englishman, we have standards darling, we set an example to the world.

Should imagine there will be a price war.

DFDS will have to decide scumbag or liquidation.

[BritDownUnder]

I think it is called competition by economists, and a race to the bottom by everyone else. Laurel and Hardy could have a made a better job of transitioning to a more 'flexible' workforce and more flexible working conditions.

There are ferries in Australia and New Zealand that seem to use local crews and cost a bomb to go on. No one seems to mind though. Once upon a time you could even get an overnight ferry from Sydney to Tasmania and when dinosaurs were around you could get a car ferry from Sydney to New Zealand.

Tunnel or bridge from the UK to Ireland anyone?

[Stumuz2]

I think it is called competition by economists, and a race to the bottom by everyone else.

Exactly. I just couldn't get over the faux outrage when P&O announced what it was doing. It didn't really have a choice. You cannot compete against a race to the bottom. All you can do is let the standards in customer offer slip to a point where people are willing to pay handsomely to get out of cattle class.

Tunnel or bridge from the UK to Ireland anyone?

Never happen. The benefit would be mostly for RoI who would not pay for the construction. Their political economy is taking, not giving.

[BritDownUnder]

Never happen. The benefit would be mostly for RoI who would not pay for the construction. Their political economy is taking, not giving.

Could use it as a tidal generating station. A kind of dual use bridge/power station. Country that pays proportionately also gets to take the power generated. And the tolls too.

Right about them being a subsidy junkie.

[Stumuz2]

Tidal power already in development off Holyhead.
https://www.morlaisenergy.com

Thank you Brexit. T'was the sort of project that has been talked about for years. Then the attempted punishment beating from the EU (France threatening to cut off off supplies to UK etc) after brexit, then boom. Rocket boosters under the project. Ynys Mon (Isle of Anglesey) so far since brexit, is home to Wind turbine factory in (doc bach) Small dock. Tidal power, Morlais off South stack. Green hydrogen hub, Y erw.

Boris Johnson has visited twice, each time saying that Wylfa nuke is getting the go ahead. All in all, things looking up.