Default0ptions wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 20:49
Neither you nor I were there Stumuz2. We only ‘know’ what we are told by ‘the news’.
I think if you read my posts on a lot of subjects i am very sceptical on what 'the news pumps out' especially the BBC and Guardian"
The one tool I use in filtering the bias of the media is to look at facts. Big picture facts. Not here-say, not a talking head opinion, but the big picture.
Default0ptions wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 20:49
I only accept that those pictures are of dead babies. Without access to the metadata in the original pictures no one can say where the picture is from.
Not very plausible deniability. What every tyrant in history has engaged in.
Default0ptions wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 20:49
Reductio ad absurdum of particular instances is both philosophically dubious and not particularly helpful.
First dead babies killed by munitions is not absurd. Do not pray in aid of philosophy until you understand it.
One last time, do you believe the Ukrainians killed their own babies for propaganda purposes?
Matteo Salvini, who served as Deputy Prime Minister of Italy, on a must jump on the bandwagon and belatedly support Ukraine, being embarrassed by the I love Putin T shirt he wore in Moscow,
Now we're in a 'war of attrition', atrocities are bound to be committed by both sides. Considering that Ukraine was peacefully going about its business a month ago, and the death and destruction since, the temptation to gain revenge on Russian captives must be enormous. That still doesn't make it right, of course.
The facts remain the same - Ukraine is the innocent party in this conflict.
Are you suggesting that Russia was justified because Ukraine only had a 'fledgling' democracy ???
If so, (undemocratic) Russia would be justified in invading half the world....???
I agree with you 100% on this Mark. On this forum most of us agree on the fundamentals for a peaceful life and we must support each other in this agreement. Yes, we disagree of the details of political and economic life but there is an underlying agreement which keeps us together.
Post such as those from the likes of Tucker Carlson and Fox News show just how far to the right Trumpism and much of the Republican Party has gone in the US that they can side with a despot like Putin. It does not bode well for the world if the Republican Party get in at the next election. American withdrawal from NATO and the front against Putin would be a disaster for Europe and especially for former Soviet block countries.
The US needs to get on very quickly with prosecuting those who took part and supported the insurrection after the last US election so that those people like Trump can be barred from office. Even if barred from office Trump and his ilk will still have a huge influence on the way that people vote unfortunately. The US should also take steps to reduce the ability of pro Russian trolls to influence any future voting in the US.
How ridiculous, we educated westerners know that the correct approach is to ask the Pope to pray for a safe flight.
I have never sacrificed a goat NOR asked the Pope to pray for a safe flight. Perhaps because I never flew much and have not flown at all for about 20 years. Goat killing and prayer might be a frequent flyer thing ?
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
Vortex2 wrote: ↑22 Mar 2022, 18:16
>> much of the Republican Party has gone in the US that they can side with a despot like Putin.
I don't think that they are siding with Putin.
They just want to point out that whilst he is a mega-thug, Ukraine is ruled by a wannabee-thug.
According to polls about 60% of Republicans support Putin and his authoritarian rule.
What gives you the idea that Ukraine is run by a wannabe thug? Putin or Russia Today? I suppose you also believe that Ukraine is run by a Jewish Nazi as well?
Vortex2 wrote: ↑22 Mar 2022, 18:16
>> much of the Republican Party has gone in the US that they can side with a despot like Putin.
I don't think that they are siding with Putin.
They just want to point out that whilst he is a mega-thug, Ukraine is ruled by a wannabee-thug.
According to polls about 60% of Republicans support Putin and his authoritarian rule.
What gives you the idea that Ukraine is run by a wannabe thug? Putin or Russia Today? I suppose you also believe that Ukraine is run by a Jewish Nazi as well?
The BBC devoted some Newsnight time to the far right threat in Ukraine. Back before recasting all Ukrainians as heroic upholders of democracy since the events of this year.
The newsnight video is halfway down the page here:
>> What gives you the idea that Ukraine is run by a wannabe thug?
* He jailed his opposition once elected
* He closed down 3 opposition TV channels in Feb 2021
* One of the Ukrainian peace negotiators with Putin was shot dead in the street by Ukrainian security services shortly after that meeting
* Two days ago Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council suspended 11 pro-Russian political parties
* Zelenskyy and two close associates were implicated in offshore financial activity with the release of the Pandora Papers, a cache of documents revealing the offshore activities of political leaders and other prominent individuals worldwide.
* Even today Ukraine scores only 61/100 on the freedom house freedom index
* Grand corruption and state capture are still widespread in Ukraine despite EU action, according
to a special report published by the European Court of Auditors (ECA) in a report from Sept 2021
* Zelenskyy a few days ago said his country would be "destroyed" before it surrenders.
So, no, Zelenskyy is no saint, despite what the Western media try to say.
We need to realise that there is a deep back story to this horrific invasion.
Ukraine has been a thorn in the side of Russia since gaining independence. It's past behaviour has been kleptocratic at times and, like all ex-soviet countries (including the old east Germany) a lot of racist and misogynistic behaviour was tolerated. That said, Ukraine has never and would never be a military threat to the nation of Russia, and Russia has over the last 20 years shown itself more than ready to militarily retake as much of its old soviet empire as it could, one small region at a time, using just as much force and brutality as it needed.
Putin and the Russian military are the root cause of this bloody war. They walked into Crimea overwhelming an unprepared defence. Since then the Ukrainian military has been extensively trained. modernised and provided with powerful defensive weapons precisely because this kind of Russian imperial invasion was predicted. That militarisation was as a result of Russian military invasion, not a provocation of it.
Of course Ukraine isn’t a threat to Russia. It’s NATO using Ukraine as its pawn in the geopolitical game that is the threat. Not least to the unfortunate citizens of Ukraine. NATO seems determined to fight Russia, but only (this time around), until the death of the last Ukrainian.
As for Crimea - it’s a major strategic warm water port for Russia. Do you imagine we would let Gibraltar go without a murmur?
Let me repeat one more time. Ukraine was armed to defend itself against Russia. Russia attacked, and is being constrained. Russia is the aggressor. NOT NATO. Russia has been attacking countries for 20 years to regain elements of its old empire.
>> the current jingoism is really unhelpful and potentially escalatory.
Agreed. I find the UK ... and most Western media ... simply dishonest and over-the-top in all this.
Sadly many/most fall for it. Shades of all that pathetic 'clapping' for the NHS during COVID.
The defence firms are however currently VERY happy ... defence spending will climb after all this.
They however better ensure that Ukraine leaves enough of the Russian army surviving in order to continue being a (perceived) threat.
FYI Russia has a GDP less than that of Texas.
Russia has a population of 145 million, which is dropping around 800k a year.
They also have a massive alcohol. drug and HIV problem.
I disagree. Ralph. I also remind you that the US/NATO have invaded, bombed or ‘intervened’ in many more countries than Russia.
I deplore any military interventions by any country - but I really doubt that when our grandchildren study ‘the causes of the war with Ukraine’ they will be as simplistic in their analysis.
