Ukraine Watch...

[PS_RalphW]

Looks like Mariupol will fall to the Russians in a day or two. The Azov brigade have retreated to a very large steel works and are being bombed to oblivion. I guess they didn't want to stay in the centre amongst civilians.

Now it is just the volunteers and reservists fighting in the city centre.

[Catweazle]

I know it's propaganda, and not a laughing matter, but I just saw a video of Ukrainian tractors pulling tanks, abandoned in muddy fields. The last guy interviewed is asked if he has ever driven a tank before, he says no, he learned via Google.

[automaticearth2]

I know it's propaganda, and not a laughing matter, but I just saw a video of Ukrainian tractors pulling tanks, abandoned in muddy fields. The last guy interviewed is asked if he has ever driven a tank before, he says no, he learned via Google.

[adam2]

One hopes that russian tanks thus captured and hauled away are EITHER destroyed, OR handed over to Ukrainian forces, and not left lying around for russia to re take them.

Before destroying the tank, or other vehicle, it should be stripped of anything useful, fuel, lubricant, electrical components, fire extinguishers, batteries, tools, small arms ammo, and anything else useful. Then burn the hulk. Sell it for scrap later.
Any dead crew found should even in wartime be treated with respect and buried. Retain any documents found and hand these to the Red Cross.

[clv101]

These tanks are all covered in explosive reactive armour, not that it seems to do much good against NATO anti-tank weapons. But presumably it's pretty hazardous stuff in untrained hands.

[adam2]

A good reason to burn the carcass and then retreat to a safe distance until sure that the remains are inert.

[Stumuz2]

Always watch what a country does, rather than what it says. I have always thought that Germany, especially the east was culturally closer to Russia than the west.

"Germany has failed to deliver its historic pledge to provide arms to Ukraine, ministers have said, amid reports that weapons have been held up by red tape and are too old to be used."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... d-ukraine/

[invalid]

1) I would believe that Russia determined it was a military threat.. Undoubtedly they have their own geopolitical, economic, and military interests at heart, just like the West.

So, if we believe that France was a military threat.. Then undoubtedly we have own geopolitical, economic, and military interests at heart, and are justified in invading France?

I wasn't trying to give a moral justification. I was suggesting a partial explanation.

[invalid]

Is he, or is it Mr Zelensky, who has already conceded NATO status, who is looking for a way out?

You are a Russian troll and I have no idea why your account has not been deleted. WTF Adam? Please remove this person from this board.

So you have no argument to back up your 'feelings'? Have you noticed anything in the days since your post that suggests Putin is looking for a way out? Do you base your analysis on the Daily Heil?

[Stumuz2]

I wasn't trying to give a moral justification. I was suggesting a partial explanation.

If your explanation is that Putin is a violent autocrat, then I agree with you. We then need to move to the second question is what do you do with violent autocrats?

[adam2]

Violent autocrats in peacetime should be removed by their own people, either at the ballot box, or via a coup or other armed force from within their country.

In war time I would consider that it is acceptable for a foreign power to kill them, or to pay someone to kill them.

[Mark]

I wasn't trying to give a moral justification. I was suggesting a partial explanation.

That's because there is no moral justification.
As far as I can see, there is no explanation either (partial or otherwise).

The facts are that Russia has invaded an independent country that was no military threat.
Russia has bombed hospitals, schools and residential blocks and now even targets theatres with 'children' clearly marked.
Russia has mined 'safe' escape routes for civilians - thousands of women and children from Mariupol are now being forcibly sent to Russia

The ICC has begun collecting evidence of Russian war crimes - the list is growing rapidly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crime ... of_Ukraine

[adam2]

I know it's propaganda, and not a laughing matter, but I just saw a video of Ukrainian tractors pulling tanks, abandoned in muddy fields. The last guy interviewed is asked if he has ever driven a tank before, he says no, he learned via Google.

Well it made me laugh, though it should not be a laughing matter.

[Default0ptions]

I was watching Sky news on Wednesday night at 10 pm. The presenter Anna botting, started to cry and became very upset, after the footage of the dead babies wrapped in old cloth stored in the basement until such time as it would be safe to bury them decently. The babies according to Sky, were killed when Russian munitions hit the hospital.

You seem to be implying that these babies were killed by Ukrainians to embarrass Putin, or, they were not killed and it was a staged scene or fake news.

So. The babies. Fake news or Ukrainians?

It’s a war. Babies get killed. The ‘West’ manages to kill astounding numbers of civilians. I assume the bombs and missiles don’t really discriminate between adult and infant bodies at the point of impact - even though we only bomb other nations with ‘freedom and democracy’.

“ Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths (per the 2007 Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey). Other survey-based studies covering different time-spans find 461,000 total deaths (over 60% of them violent) as of June 2011 (per PLOS Medicine 2013), and 655,000 total deaths (over 90% of them violent) as of June 2006 (per the 2006 Lancet study). Body counts counted at least 110,600 violent deaths as of April 2009 (Associated Press). The Iraq Body Count project documents 185,000–208,000 violent civilian deaths through February 2020 in their table.”

The propaganda here that you point out is Ms Botting weeping on air while the same Sky News portrayed the US ‘shock and awe’ attack on Baghdad as a triumph.

https://news.sky.com/gallery/iraq-shock ... s-10432027

Nothing remotely like that intensity of destruction has yet been shown in this conflict so far.

It’s the level of sheer, blatant, undisguised hypocrisy that irritates me.

Still, the propaganda is working. Isn’t it.

[Default0ptions]

>.> The US hasn't just invaded Mexico.

Shuffles feet ... Grenada, Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait ... plus many, many more over the years.

Those were distant hell-holes on the fringes of the modern world. Ukraine is a modern European state.

Just got to pick you up on this one UE.

Are you really saying that peoples lives are worth less in ‘distant hell-holes on the fringes of the world’?

Do only ‘modern European’ lives matter?

Unbelievable!