Ukraine Watch...

[UndercoverElephant]

Balanced debate is good, but you're starting to sound like a Russian troll....

That is precisely what he is.

[Vortex2]

I doubt it.

Both sides are at fault.

Ukraines is not the most democratic state in the world, and Zelenskyy is no saint.

[Catweazle]

Russian domestic airliners have a poor safety record anyway - one will soon fall out of the sky once they stop maintaining them and/or start using fake parts....

Once the thousands of Stinger missiles start finding their way to the Ukraine Neo-Nazi groups it won't be poor maintenance that brings the planes down.

[Default0ptions]

Balanced debate is good, but you're starting to sound like a Russian troll....

That is precisely what he is.

Let’s not emulate the comments section of The Times or The Mail. Not only is the ‘Russian Troll’ line playing the man not the ball, but it’s an attempt to narrow the Overton Window to a thin and extremely partisan, blinkered slit.

The simplistic reduction of the situation to a Mordor vs the Shire scenario is unrealistic and unhelpful in any serious discussion.

[Default0ptions]

Russian domestic Airlines used to have some of the worst safety records in the aviation world.

Pakistan International Airlines once sacrificed a goat on the tarmac to get their plane flying:

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... .html

[Catweazle]

Russian domestic Airlines used to have some of the worst safety records in the aviation world.

Pakistan International Airlines once sacrificed a goat on the tarmac to get their plane flying:

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... .html

How ridiculous, we educated westerners know that the correct approach is to ask the Pope to pray for a safe flight.

[PS_RalphW]

Balanced debate is good, but you're starting to sound like a Russian troll....

That is precisely what he is.

Let’s not emulate the comments section of The Times or The Mail. Not only is the ‘Russian Troll’ line playing the man not the ball, but it’s an attempt to narrow the Overton Window to a thin and extremely partisan, blinkered slit.

The simplistic reduction of the situation to a Mordor vs the Shire scenario is unrealistic and unhelpful in any serious discussion.

Agreed. Your arguments are rubbish. What your motivations are for presenting them I have no idea.

The Russian military is engaged in brutal and immoral war and employing any means at their disposal which they think they can get away with to destroy their chosen enemy and steal the country of Ukraine. The evidence is overwhelming, and entirely in line with their previous behaviour. No supposed geopolitical posturing or even racist behaviour by a minor subset of the population justifies murdering thousands of innocent people.

[PS_RalphW]

Ukrainian president declares that Ukraine will never become a member of Nato, as an admission of the real politic.

[Mark]

Balanced debate is good, but you're starting to sound like a Russian troll....

That is precisely what he is.

Let’s not emulate the comments section of The Times or The Mail. Not only is the ‘Russian Troll’ line playing the man not the ball, but it’s an attempt to narrow the Overton Window to a thin and extremely partisan, blinkered slit.

The simplistic reduction of the situation to a Mordor vs the Shire scenario is unrealistic and unhelpful in any serious discussion.

Can you provide a reason for Russia invading an independent country that was no military threat ?
Can you provide a reason for Russia bombing hospitals, schools and residential blocks ?
Can you provide a reason for Russia mining 'safe' escape routes for civilians ?
Can you provide a reason for Russia kidnapping mayors ?
Can you provide a reason for Russia attacking nuclear power plants ?

Ukrainian's response shows that the vast majority of their people don't want to be 'liberated' by Russia.

None of it makes any sense to me at all, but I'm more than happy for you to explain.
This forum is a space to discuss different viewpoints...
Over to you....

[UndercoverElephant]

Ukrainian president declares that Ukraine will never become a member of Nato, as an admission of the real politic.

Although it doesn't actually mean much. No such admission can possibly be binding.

[UndercoverElephant]

Excellent article by John Simpson: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60756993

tl;dr Putin has lost this war, and now is just looking for a way out.

[Vortex2]

>> Can you provide a reason for Russia invading an independent country

I doubt Putin woke up on a Thursday morning and thought "Hey, I'll invade Ukraine today".

This has taken maybe 2 or more years to plan.

That suggests that there ARE substantial reasons ... at least in Putin's mind ... for the invasion.

The Western media seems to gloss over this, in their attempts to raise Zelenskyy to saint status.

Ukraine has been at (undeclared) war with Russia for some 8 years.

If you poke a grumpy bear in the eye with a sharp stick for 8 years, maybe you should expect an adverse response at some stage?

The Ukrainian population is not totally innocent in all this - they have supported a government which has allowed the undeclared war to continue year after year.

[Vortex2]

>> Pakistan International Airlines once sacrificed a goat on the tarmac to get their plane flying:

An airliner flying over Libya was lost with everyone on board due to a fire ... started by some passengers tryng to cook food on an open burner in the aisle.

(IIRC the plane landed - but nobody made it out)

[Mark]

Ukraine has been at (undeclared) war with Russia for some 8 years.
If you poke a grumpy bear in the eye with a sharp stick for 8 years, maybe you should expect an adverse response at some stage?
The Ukrainian population is not totally innocent in all this - they have supported a government which has allowed the undeclared war to continue year after year.

Think you'll find that Russia (by proxy through ethnic Russians) started the war in Ukraine 8yrs ago by annexing Crimea and eastern Donbas ?
As far as I can see, the Ukrainians have only been defending themselves.

That's not to say that all Ukrainians are totally innocent.
There's been a level of anti-Russian sentiment and no doubt there are also some far right elements.

But that's no different to the situation in all former soviet block countries.....
Does that mean that Russia would be justified to invade Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Moldova etc. etc. etc. ??

[UndercoverElephant]

>> Can you provide a reason for Russia invading an independent country

I doubt Putin woke up on a Thursday morning and thought "Hey, I'll invade Ukraine today".

This has taken maybe 2 or more years to plan.

More like 8. He's been planning this ever since Ukraine didn't rig an election in favour his man in 2014.

Nobody is to blame for this war apart from Vladimir Putin.