Ukraine Watch...

[UndercoverElephant]

I have to confess that I’m disappointed with most of you. I read your forum posts pretty much every day to get your thoughts on reality rather than the parroting of our media’s stance on many of the major issues of the day - but you all seem to have swallowed the western media take on the Ukraine issue hook, line and sinker.

And where are you getting your alternative information from? Russia Today?

[Default0ptions]

Could be Russia just wants to achieve its stated objectives and get out?

[Default0ptions]

UE

Would reading both sides of a propaganda war be wrong?

Why?

[UndercoverElephant]

UE

Would reading both sides of a propaganda war be wrong?

Why?

No. What is wrong is assuming that the two sides are providing equally distorted messages. And actually I have been trying to find Russian sources, and what they are saying suggests the western media is reporting as honestly as it can. There's plenty of stories about "Ukrainian nazis", stuff about how Indian students in Kyiv were beaten up...but they aren't even bothering to deny that the western claims that Russia is taking significant casualties and equipment losses.

https://www.rt.com/russia/550788-russia ... asualties/

The official did not specify the number of casualties among Russian troops, stating only that they are “many times less than the number of eliminated nationalists,” as well as casualties suffered by Ukraine’s regular military forces.

A small number of Russian servicemen have been taken prisoner by Ukrainian troops, Konashenkov admitted, condemning the treatment they’ve received at the hands of the opposing force.

“We know how the Ukrainian Nazis treat the few captured Russian servicemen,” he said. “And we see that the abuse and torture are the same as those of the German Nazis and their henchmen in the Great Patriotic War.”

The Russian military has been closely monitoring footage purportedly showing the abuse of the country’s soldiers at the hands of Ukrainian nationalists, the official warned, promising to bring those involved in such behavior to justice.

If that's the best propaganda they can manage, then the Russians are in deep doo-dah.

[UndercoverElephant]

Could be Russia just wants to achieve its stated objectives and get out?

It hasn't stated what its objectives are. Russia very obviously want Ukraine fully under Russian control. It wants to end Ukrainian democracy.

Are you a paid Russian troll by any chance? I can't imagine any sane westerner posting what you are currently posting. If so, please don't take the regulars on this sub for fools. You will get nowhere.

[Vortex2]

but you all seem to have swallowed the western media take on the Ukraine issue hook, line and sinker.

You do have a point.

To a degree we are being conned by the media.

There is back story here, which we are not hearing.

[Catweazle]

There is back story here, which we are not hearing.

I think so too. If we believe our news feeds then Putin is an idiot. I don't think he is an idiot, so something is missing. I have no idea what.

[Default0ptions]

Thanks Vortex and no I’m not ‘paid Russian troll’

That you would even just blandly assume that is part of the problem.

Could we call that ‘media capture’?

I just expected a more balanced commentary from you regulars given your expert dissection of energy related media stories.

[Default0ptions]

UE

“ No. What is wrong is assuming that the two sides are providing equally distorted messages”

Umm; so you can pick apart our (UK) media nonsense about the energy situation but happily swallow whatever is said by media about Russia and Ukraine?

Again ‘the first casualty of war is truth’ and we need to recognise the propaganda from both sides for what it is and not simply parrot our media line.

[Mark]

Russian Chief of the General Staff, Valery Gerasimov, reportedly fired today.....
https://twitter.com/AVindman/status/1498007949104533508

Apparently he had a reputation as one of the few people that could/would stand up to Putin....
If so, not good news wrt 'the button' ??

[adam2]

Could be Russia just wants to achieve its stated objectives and get out?

And what might be these "stated objectives" be ?
At the minimum, the objective would seem to be the end of Ukraine as an independent nation, even if Russia DID stop at that, does that make their actions acceptable ?

Not in my view, and the Ukrainian people dont seem very keen either.

[kenneal - lagger]

I don't think Putin is stupid, I think he is a magalomaniac, phychopath along the lines of Hitler and Stalin. He is a man who is willing to deploy nerve and radioactive agents against his political enemies and jail anyone who disagrees with him or stands against him.

Hopefully his "friends and colleagues" will realise that he is costing them a lot of money and possibly their positions of power and will turn against him and depose him. They might then withdraw from greater Ukraine and just hold the two new Republics which I think might be a compromise position which might be acceptable to most people.

There is the danger that this might lead to uprisings in the Baltic States but I don't think a new government in Russia would support them as this support would likely lead to sanctions which would hit their pockets.

What Putin's actions have done is convince most people living in countries bordering Russia that membership of NATO is probably the best thing their country can achieve. I know a woman who is originally Czech and she hated the Russians with a vengeance because of what they imposed on her country. I haven't seen her since this war started but I can imagine her reaction and her reaction to anyone who might have sympathy for the Russian position.

I've got RT on and the coverage is not too overtly one sided. Perhaps that makes it more dangerous!

[adam2]

Rouble falls in value in early trading. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60550992

I wonder how long Russian troops will stay loyal if paid in funny money once this starts inflating to uselessness.

[kenneal - lagger]

RT showing an armoured column of the "Donbas Militia" advancing while pointing out that the West is supplying Ukraine with weapons. Who supplied the Donbas Militia with tanks and apc's?

[UndercoverElephant]

This is beginning to look like the start of WW3.

No it isn't. Long way to we get there.

Yeah. About 4 days.