Permaculture & Getting Going in the Garden.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 23 Mar 2007, 16:54

Sally wrote:Has anyone else been on one of these courses? What do you think?

I'm part way through a permaculture design course in Leeds - it's the usual 2 week course, but delivered as one weekend a month for seven months.

I'm really enjoying it - it's challenged some of my preconceptions about life and has certainly allayed some of my worries about peak oil. I'd recommend everyone on here to do a permaculture course.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 23 Mar 2007, 19:50

Thanks for your replies Adam and Joe.

I must get organised to book this course then.....

Totally_Baffled · Post by **Totally_Baffled** » 23 Mar 2007, 20:05

allayed some of my worries about peak oil. I'd recommend everyone on here to do a permaculture course.

Hi Sally

I am interested in perhaps taking some sort of permaculture course (I am now also close to acquiring an allotment too!

)

I know very little about permaculture (I need to add to the reading list - but it is getting very long!!)

In what way did the course allay some of your fears of PO? This is one of the things I need help with, I cannot stop thinking about this damn topic , and to be honest my brain could do with some time out!

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 23 Mar 2007, 20:16

TB I think it were Joe's fears that were allayed!

I'm still hoping to go on the permaculture course this summer. I think (hope) that it will not be a doom and gloom experience, but rather a positive outlook thing.

Peak oil or no these are things worth doing I think. (I read recently that the veg sold in supermarkets today are well down on minerals that would have been found in veg in the 60s even.... all due to modern industrial style farming. So even growing better veg is worth doing whether PO is now or later!)

Totally_Baffled · Post by **Totally_Baffled** » 23 Mar 2007, 20:46

TB I think it were Joe's fears that were allayed!

LOL, I need some glasses!!!

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 23 Mar 2007, 23:27

Sally wrote

(I read recently that the veg sold in supermarkets today are well down on minerals that would have been found in veg in the 60s even.... all due to modern industrial style farming.

The following websites have a lot about the demineralisation of soils and, consequently, our food. The levels of minerals in the soil, according to these sources, has been dropping since the last ice age and has been exacerbated by chemical farming methods.

http://www.seercentre.org.uk/
http://www.remineralize.org/about.php

I've got some rock dust from the SEER centre and am experimenting with it this year. I'm using it on one side of each of my raised beds to see what difference it makes. I'll upload some photos later in the year.

I'm also experimenting with the addition of charcoal dust on its own and in conjunction with the rock dust. Charcoal, especially low temperature charcoal, helps to prevent the leaching of minerals and other nutrients from the soil. It was found in the DODGY TAX AVOIDERS basin where, before the Europeans arrived, it supported agriculture for a population of several million people. These soils are known as Terra Preta.

http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehm ... tahome.htm

Hopefully the additional of charcoal dust will make the rock dust last longer by preventing leaching.

I'm also trying a Forest Garden plot this year and I'll be using the above methods there as well.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 24 Mar 2007, 06:32

Thanks for these links Kenneal.

I read about the Rock dust in Permaculture magazine.. and Terra Preta somewhere .... (perhaps PM too?).

Our garden was relandscaped & this involved quite a bit of rock hammering to move rock and the top soil was then spread back over the redesigned rocks. It's fairly productive soil now & part of me wonders if the rock liberated by the landscaping has helped...? On the down side it is very stoney!

The charcoal idea makes sense too... after all it is used as a filter to remove impurities from water because it holds onto them. So in soil it should do the same thing.

I look forward to your results. You could try 4 quarters.

Ch& RD / Ch only
RD only / neither

Of course I could try it myself..... !

.

grinu · Post by **grinu** » 25 Mar 2007, 17:05

Hi Joe is your Permaculture course with Andy G? I think he has done some talks on peak oil and permaculture.

(I gave a presentation on peak oil during my Permaculture course last yr in York - you could have cut the air with a knife afterwards - I felt guilty for ruining everyone's day).

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 25 Mar 2007, 22:16

I was going to use four large pots, Sally, with fast growing plants in and keep them going for a few years.

Ken

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 25 Mar 2007, 22:27

Grinu... I thought permaculture folk were fairly peak oil aware? Obviously not!

Ken... 4 pots sounds good. It will be an interesting trial.

.

grinu · Post by **grinu** » 26 Mar 2007, 13:58

Hi Sally

Peak oil seems to have been covered really well in Permaculture magazine and events, so I presume most permaculture folk will be aware. Many of the people on the course were new to Permaculture (myself included) so there were lots of new ideas floating around, one of them being peak oil - I can still remember the sense of dread that filled the room - I'd forgotten how heavy going it is when you haven't considered the idea before.

Permaculture does seem like a good way of adressing many of the issues arising from peak oil, in that it's all about living lightly, growing organically and harmoniously etc. I think there's a danger of it being seen as a bit wooly/idealistic, but the practical principles are excellent and very relevant and useful. Everyone should go on a course.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 26 Mar 2007, 14:28

One of my worries about the course would be that it would end up a bit removed from reality... I'm not a group hug type of person!

However I googled one of the course leaders and his previous work seemed very grounded. (10 days will be a very long time if I discover they are all a bit in the clouds!)

grinu · Post by **grinu** » 26 Mar 2007, 22:35

You probably will find it a bit fluffy - we found it a bit over the top - but the useful titbits you pick up should outweigh the woolly moments. I suppose a lot depends on the teachers - ours were good and we did a quite a bit of interesting practical work.

Some bits we couldn't help but laugh at tho, e.g. watching a video of some long haired blokes wearing christmas jumpers and passing a flower round, each nibbling a bit and commenting on how great it tasted - comedy genius.

Pippa · Post by **Pippa** » 27 Mar 2007, 10:51

Sally, looks perfect. I had a go with a friend last year, here are some piccies of how our plot looks today....

Looks a little wild and weedy.....

How about this.......

or this....

Starting that plot last year WAS ALOT OF HARD WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First we had to fence the plot (neither cheap financially or physically) because there are loads of rabbits and deer which eat your food if you don't, then their was the daily/weekly fight against weeds - you will see that we have lost

. The summer was dry last year so lots of watering was done daily when hot, then everything came at once - you can see most of it still sitting on the ground - look at all those squashes, marrows etc.

It was such alot of work that my friend isn't really going to do too much this year. I live to fight another day and am starting a new plot with my husband. Last night we started spreading the manure on the ground (full of earthworms

.

My advise to those thinking would be start small, maybe very small.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 27 Mar 2007, 11:46

I agree with your advice Pippa.

Each year that a bed is established and kept weed free (ish) is easier than the last.

I've been building up gradually here over the past few years. Easy for me though as I can walk out the back door to my garden

And that is just where I am going now!