Afghanistan falling to the taliban.

[adam2]

Chaotic scenes at Kabul airport.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-58226712

[BritDownUnder]

My main thought is about the fall of Saigon and the helicopters being pushed off the aircraft carriers after they are no longer useful.
I think a small plane, Cessna even landed on a carrier. I would like to see more media coverage of the airport. Maybe it will come out later. Apparently the UK has to evacuate 6000 people. The USA 10,000. Australia is not even sending planes but has people to evacuate. How?

I could say a lot here about the failures of the West in general over the last 70 years but this is not the place or time. Time to take in the moment. In history this could be even more symbolic than either the fall of Saigon or 911.

[adam2]

Several sources are already comparing the fall of Kabul to the fall of Saigon, which I remember (this makes me feel very old)

The evacuation of Westerners from Saigon was said to be biggest helicopter airlift ever, and yes several helicopters were dumped overboard from an aircraft carrier, in order to free space for arriving machines.

[clv101]

Brutality is beaten into the minds of their children from a very young age. It is a multi generational culture that it is very hard to break.

After 20 years of western occupation, for many of these Taliban fighters in their 20s and 30s it's all they've known. They've grown up under western occupation and their fathers under the Soviets before them. The fight is a way of life rather than a career.

[Stumuz2]

This is turning into a major military intelligence failure:
https://www.reddit.com/r/afghanistan/co ... urce=share

It was a historic political failure, not an intelligence failure. The corruption, cowardice, and tribalism was axiomatic. Therefore, it cannot be an intelligence failure.

[Stumuz2]

China is not at all squeamish about recognising brutal dictatorships. Especially ones that discomfort the west. My enemy's enemy is my friend. The Taliban is no more a unified force than than the Afghan government was. They are tribal and their main unifying beliefs are xenophobia and mysogeny. They may have some justification for the former. Brutality is beaten into the minds of their children from a very young age. It is a multi generational culture that it is very hard to break.

Agree with most of that, except the ' xenophobia and mysogeny' those are western constructs which have no meaning in a backward tribal country. An elder protects his family, is part of a slightly larger social group, and that's it.

[UndercoverElephant]

China is not at all squeamish about recognising brutal dictatorships. Especially ones that discomfort the west. My enemy's enemy is my friend. The Taliban is no more a unified force than than the Afghan government was. They are tribal and their main unifying beliefs are xenophobia and mysogeny.

Their main unifying belief is radical Islam - the one belief system that the Chinese government is attempting to eradicate from its own territory. The Chinese government is pragmatic enough to do business with the Taliban, but there will be some fairly stringent rules attached.

[PS_RalphW]

Reports of people being killed on the runway as they try to chase after departing aircraft. The only difference with Saigon is that the world is inured to such scenes with 24/7 social media and is harder to shock.

[Stumuz2]

I'm certainly shocked. Pictures of Afghan men sitting on the undercarriage flaps of a US globemaster heavy transport plane. It takes off, closes the undercarriage and they fall to their death. It is surreal.

[Stumuz2]

Chances of Ghani living the life with failed corrupt despots in Paris has receded.

"Afghan President Ghani tried to escape with four cars stuffed with money, but not everything fit in the helicopter so some of the money left on the airport’s runway"
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu?ref_src= ... ing-planes

[adam2]

Flights from Kabul suspended due to chaos at the airport.
Shocking scenes including large mobs surrounding aircraft during take off, and others hanging on to the outside of aircraft, and falling presumably to their deaths shortly after take off.

"Seven dead" at the airport according to official reports, though observing the scenes one might suspect greater loss of life.

[clv101]

Something to look out for in the future is the American response to this humiliation and embarrassment (not just this week but the whole Afghanistan misadventure). Surely there's going to pressure to restore the US military image, look strong and find a conflict they can 'win'.

[Stumuz2]

Such as?

[BritDownUnder]

Such as?

Haiti anyone?

[adam2]

Chaotic scenes at and around Kabul airport continue, huge numbers are desperate to escape.

I can understand that military and diplomatic personnel from the west would be keen to escape, as would be local staff whom have worked for the west.
However the pictures on TV suggest that many of those trying to escape are muslims. Why would they be so desperate to escape ? Surely now that the taliban are in charge, Afghanistan will be run on proper islamic lines and in accordance with sharia law. Should be an islamic utopia now, in which good muslims would be happy.